Allan Saint-Maximin

[The Fish 10963]

13 hours ago, Andrew said:

I didn't see the game in question but having seen plenty of ASM before, is this really the case?

ASMs trick is that he can dribble and work space for himself, he loves to do it in fact, he wants to take everyone on.

He also doesn't track back so if he gets his overlapping attacking fullback, the overlap happens, he doesn't pass because hes doing his thing and then loses the ball, we've then got no one defending the left flank.

I feel like ASM only works with a Burn behind him. The other option being a genetic freak of a LB who can charge up and down at rapid pace all game and is also a mint defender or setting up the entire team to facilitate ASMs lack of defending in such a way that he simply hasn't earned with end product.

 

To get the most out of ASM we need him to receive the ball deeper than he has in the last few games. If he gets the ball around the 18yd box there's a congested box at the end of his dribble. The other attackers are marked, the opposition has bodies occupying space at the very least. If he gets the ball around the halfway line he can beat his man/men and that leaves them a man or two down in the defensive 3rd. Which means more options for the pass, or simply a more clear route to the shot for ASM himself. 

 

The same isn't true on the right hand side. We want Almiron to run onto a searching pass into space, or receiving the ball by the 18yd box with Trippier and Bruno in fairly close proximity, a quick interchange of passes and Almiron is behind for the pull back or clear for the shot. When Almiron receives the ball on the halfway line he hasn't the tools to beat the fullback + midfielder, so we pass around them. 

 

ASM would work best with a Trippier-level fullback + a creative number 8 in the same style as James Maddison. But that's north of £80m worth of talent to best utilise what is essentially an agent of chaos. Gordon should work within the team and system we've already got. 

[Isegrim 9900]

With Miggy looking a bit jaded I would actually try and play ASM on the right wing with Trippier telling him what to do.

[Dr Gloom 22148]

15 hours ago, Andrew said:

I didn't see the game in question but having seen plenty of ASM before, is this really the case?

ASMs trick is that he can dribble and work space for himself, he loves to do it in fact, he wants to take everyone on.

He also doesn't track back so if he gets his overlapping attacking fullback, the overlap happens, he doesn't pass because hes doing his thing and then loses the ball, we've then got no one defending the left flank.

I feel like ASM only works with a Burn behind him. The other option being a genetic freak of a LB who can charge up and down at rapid pace all game and is also a mint defender or setting up the entire team to facilitate ASMs lack of defending in such a way that he simply hasn't earned with end product.

 

a modern full back will get forwards on the overlap and will get back to defend. burn has operated almost as a left-sided centre half in a back three at times this season while trippier has pushed right up alongside almiron.

 

asm needs a full back to create space for him or he has two or sometimes three players on him. ASM would massively benefit from a left-sided full back with tripper's skills to link up with, but they don't grow on trees. he looked much better last season playing with targett than he did on saturday with burn. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 22148]

3 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

With Miggy looking a bit jaded I would actually try and play ASM on the right wing with Trippier telling him what to do.

 

good shout 

[The Fish 10963]

18 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

a modern full back will get forwards on the overlap and will get back to defend. burn has operated almost as a left-0sided centre half in a back three at times thiss eason while trippier has pushed right up alongside almiron.

 

asm needs a full back to create space for him or he has two or sometimes three players on him. ASM would massively benefit from a left-sided full back with tripper's skills to link up with, but they don't grow on trees. he looked much better last season playing with targett than he did on saturday with burn. 

 

 

Totally agree and like you say, with all due respect to Burn he hasn't the technical side of his game to the same level as Targett, let alone Trippier. So the quick interchange of passes, the vision to anticipate runs just isn't there. 

 

I wonder if Gordon could work as a wingback in a 5-4-1?

[PaddockLad 17653]

Howay is going to be fuckin fuming with you lot being reasonable about Maxi this morning. 17,987 transatlantic words of hate and bile incoming imminently. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED  

Edited February 8, 2023 by PaddockLad

[LongTimeAdmirer 1286]

Sell our only world class player? and on the cheap? youve lost your minds 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by LongTimeAdmirer

[wykikitoon 20729]

Fuck off Allan

[LongTimeAdmirer 1286]

11 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Fuck off Allan

 

Relax fella and bring it in 

 

[Holden McGroin 6783]

Be interesting to see if Eddie gives him another chance. I suspect he will.

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22148]

36 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

Be interesting to see if Eddie gives him another chance. I suspect he will.

 

 

i think he’ll start the next two games tbh. It’s not Howe’s style to drop someone after one off game 

[Alex 35583]

If he doesn’t figure in Howe’s long term plans I guess we’ll see plenty established CL clubs bidding well over what we paid for ASM. Given he’s world class 👍🏻

[Dr Gloom 22148]

World class is pushing it like  

[ohhh_yeah 2991]

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22148]

 ASM was bloody brilliant today and unfortunate to be subbed. More performances like this please 

[spongebob toonpants 4133]

12 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 ASM was bloody brilliant today and unfortunate to be subbed. More performances like this please 

Lots of end product as well. I genuinely think he is trying to change his game, and today it seemed to be working. I don't think it comes very naturally but maybe the message is getting through.

Or mebbe ManU were just shite

 

[Gemmill 46030]

Howe talks all the time about how his great passion is improving players, so I'm sure he won't want to give up on ASM easily. I've thought he was away in the summer for a while now, but I'm beginning to doubt that.

[Chaser 1255]

10 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Howe talks all the time about how his great passion is improving players, so I'm sure he won't want to give up on ASM easily. I've thought he was away in the summer for a while now, but I'm beginning to doubt that.

I'd like to see him stay, but then he has a stinker and I think he's not consistent enough. On his day he is superb. 

[Dr Gloom 22148]

He’s got more skill on the ball than anyone else in the squad. The way he runs with the ball at speed can be scintillating.

 

I’ve always said with ASM that his weaknesses - decision-making and effort - are things that can be coached. He has the tools to be one of the best players in the world if he listens to his coach. It’s up to him. He can be as good as he wants to be.

[Howay 12496]

 Howay man, he had a good game and deserves praise, but it was against a full back that can’t defend - the same one he did well against in the final and their manager inexplicably set the same match up - he took the assist well but also lost the ball 3 fucking times in the build up thankfully the rest of our side kept winning it back, as well as he played this week he was equally as fucking tragic the game before, if we want to be at the level we are aiming for you need to be consistent. He’s been the same for four seasons, he will never be a consistent performer and in between good performances he has ones where he’s a complete liability. 
 

Hopefully we sign Diaby in the summer and can continue to improve our starting 11. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Howay

[OTF 7488]

45 minutes ago, Howay said:

 Howay man, he had a good game and deserves praise, but it was against a full back that can’t defend - the same one he did well against in the final and their manager inexplicably set the same match up - he took the assist well but also lost the ball 3 fucking times in the build up thankfully the rest of our side kept winning it back, as well as he played this week he was equally as fucking tragic the game before, if we want to be at the level we are aiming for you need to be consistent. He’s been the same for four seasons, he will never be a consistent performer and in between good performances he has ones where he’s a complete liability. 
 

Hopefully we sign Diaby in the summer and can continue to improve our starting 11. 

 

His consistency may be similar but he has changed a lot as a player under Howe. With Bruce he was allowed to do what he wanted and the ball was consistently funneled to him hoping for some magic with no expectations on his outside attack. Under Howe he knows he has to fit in the team, which means contributing defensively and passing. He could have easily had a couple more assists in this and the pass that was converted by Willock you could have previously seen him somehow instead trying to score himself.

[acrossthepond 878]

I agree with you both. He has come on a lot as a player under Howe, matured you might say. I saw a great moment from him early in the second half where after having lost the ball in typical fashion, he dashed back and attempted a tackle from behind that, combined with Burn, somehow just about got the ball away from a Man U player, possibly Antony. No chance the Bruce-vintage ASM makes that tackle. 

 

But he'll never be good enough for what this team is trying to accomplish. He's too moody, too self-centered, and too lacking in discipline. After he's been sold we can remember the brilliant moments, much like with Ben Arfa, but not the absolutely dire performances where he spent half his time on his arse and the rest losing the ball running down blind alleys. 

[Howay 12496]

15 minutes ago, OTF said:

 

His consistency may be similar but he has changed a lot as a player under Howe. With Bruce he was allowed to do what he wanted and the ball was consistently funneled to him hoping for some magic with no expectations on his outside attack. Under Howe he knows he has to fit in the team, which means contributing defensively and passing. He could have easily had a couple more assists in this and the pass that was converted by Willock you could have previously seen him somehow instead trying to score himself.

I agree he had a good game today, he’s become a little less selfish for sure but as ATP mentions he won’t ever be consistent. My point still stands too that for all the praise he’s getting for the assist he lost the ball three times in the build up, it was almost laughable lack of concentration and awareness. You also can’t have performances like he did last match in a team vying for the CL and he does it very regularly. 
 

I’m honestly more just tired of this discussion over him, he has a tragic game and everyone slates him like he’s the worst, then he has a decent game like today and there’s this outpouring about him but honestly he was maybe, at best, our 4th best player today behind Bruno, Trippier, and Isak? I get people like him, I’m personally not a fan but I still get it as he can be exciting whereas I just see a player that’s regularly sloppy. I’ll always wish him well as he seems a genuine person and provided some bright moments in some horrible seasons but I’m ready to watch dependable consistent ballers like Isak. 

[OTF 7488]

8 minutes ago, Howay said:

I agree he had a good game today, he’s become a little less selfish for sure but as ATP mentions he won’t ever be consistent. My point still stands too that for all the praise he’s getting for the assist he lost the ball three times in the build up, it was almost laughable lack of concentration and awareness. You also can’t have performances like he did last match in a team vying for the CL and he does it very regularly. 
 

I’m honestly more just tired of this discussion over him, he has a tragic game and everyone slates him like he’s the worst, then he has a decent game like today and there’s this outpouring about him but honestly he was maybe, at best, our 4th best player today behind Bruno, Trippier, and Isak? I get people like him, I’m personally not a fan but I still get it as he can be exciting whereas I just see a player that’s regularly sloppy. I’ll always wish him well as he seems a genuine person and provided some bright moments in some horrible seasons but I’m ready to watch dependable consistent ballers like Isak. 

 

I have no problem with Howe using him the way he has. He's an option that provides unique ability and impact. I wouldn't consider what we saw of ASM under Bruce as being part of his current reckoning. Whilst we've definitely seen inconsistency from him under Howe we've also seen a willingness to adapt his game and contribute more. He's never going to be dependable in his all-round game but with the amount of substitutes and bench players you can carry we'd be silly to get rid of him IMO.

[LongTimeAdmirer 1286]

Cant wait to have beers with @Howay 10 years from now as we walk towards SJP for Allans testimonial as he retires from the game, a legend at Newcastle, getting ready to take up a coaching role at the academy.