Allan Saint-Maximin

[MrLogic 16]

7 minutes ago, Diego21 said:

The world of statistics and football is very complex. It is true that each time, football evolves oriented to Big Data and that clubs invest more in it during the season. But believe me, Big Data has nothing to do with the statistics that we can see on SofaScore, Sqwawka or WhoScored.

Because we can know the successful passes, the dribbles made or the turnovers. But that, without a deep analysis of the environment, doesn't really say anything. What if a player has a high percentage of the pass because he only passes it to his partner at one meter and does not risk it? What if one player dribbles less than another, but he does so in situations and positions where if he loses the ball it is a clear opportunity for the opponent? If we can get the full stats, we have to pay some thousend pounds per year to programs like Opta... And probably It is of little use because the most normal thing is that we do not know how to interpret them. 

I insist, the data is becoming more and more important. And they should not be excluded. But they are data handled by professionals, who always adapt that data to the good of the team, so we have to try to make a mix between data and feelings.

All of that data (pass succession based on pass length and errors leading to goals) is widely available through free platforms (fbref)...  

[strawb 4247]

Ere, you’re right mate well done. Fuck off

[Alex 35056]

With friends like Clarko, who needs enemies? 

[spongebob toonpants 3992]

12 minutes ago, Clarko said:

All of that data (pass succession based on pass length and errors leading to goals) is widely available through free platforms (fbref)...  

#teamdiego

[PaddockLad 17239]

24 minutes ago, Clarko said:

No you're not, because if I see something different to you, who is right? What world do you live in where it's acceptable to say "I'm right because I said so", seriously? It's the exact same thing with the statistics, you say that I misconstrued and misrepresented stats, I say I didn't? Who is right? The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence/reasoning to support your claim. 

 

Maybe I'll make a phone call to my local police station and state that I saw you commit a serious crime, with no evidence or explanation, I saw it so you did it, and we'll see how that plays out huh? (I hate this)

You can’t even follow a quoted post mate, if you’re not doing that on purpose you need help

 

This is what I said in the post you quoted:

 

 “That's why I suggested the evidence of our own eyes is as least as important as stats, which you completely misconstrued and misrepresented.  “

 

That’s not saying I accused you of misconstruing and misrepresenting stats, is it? 
 

As I say, if you’re doing that on purpose go fuck yourself, if not go back to college and do some basic English comprehension….

Edited November 23, 2021 by PaddockLad

[MrLogic 16]

2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

You can’t even follow a quoted post mate, if you’re not doing that on purpose you need help

 

This is what I said in the post you quoted:

 

 “That's why I suggested the evidence of our own eyes is as least as important as stats, which you completely misconstrued and misrepresented.  “

 

That’s not saying you misconstrued and misrepresented stats, is it? 
 

As I say, if you’re doing that on purpose go fuck yourself, if not go back to college and do some basic English comprehension….

'That's why I suggested the evidence of our own eyes is as least as important as stats, which you completely misconstrued and misrepresented.'

 

Then I have no idea what that means...

 

'our own eyes is as least as important as stats'

 

'do some basic English comprehension'

 

[PaddockLad 17239]

2 minutes ago, Clarko said:

'That's why I suggested the evidence of our own eyes is as least as important as stats, which you completely misconstrued and misrepresented.'

 

Then I have no idea what that means...

 

'our own eyes is as least as important as stats'

 

'do some basic English comprehension'

 

Ok… you don’t understand what I’m posting. I’ve never had this problem in near on 15 years posting on here…..  @Diego21 understands me and English is his second language, he also agrees with my point and football is his career. Do you understand and accept that evidence?..

[MrLogic 16]

23 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Ok… you don’t understand what I’m posting. I’ve never had this problem in near on 15 years posting on here…..  @Diego21 understands me and English is his second language, he also agrees with my point and football is his career. Do you understand and accept that evidence?..

I did ask you what I misconstrued previously and you responded by telling me to chill out, ignoring the question. You then post again, claiming I have misconstrued something for a second time (which I believed to be statistics) in a less than coherent sentence, you then accuse me of lacking English comprehension skills, when I point out the grammatical mistake in your comment and ask for clarification you refuse to clarify and claim that if a foreigner can understand your bad English I should be able to as well...

 

Please can we move on from the above... For a third time? What have I misconstrued? 

 

And again, for the umpteenth time, no you can not use "eyewitness testimony" or what you (think you) see, in a debate, it's not reliable and can be immediately canceled out by the opposition claiming they saw the opposite. Statistics are objective and factual.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Clarko

[Dougle 3329]

Maybe folk have entertained this person long enough. In my humble, clarko is either a mackem on the wind, with the usual free time they have, or a person with issues.

And if they genuinely do have problems, which they are showing real evidence of, it might be best to just leave them to go back to whereever they spent their angry time before they discovered here.

[Monkeys Fist 42356]

42 minutes ago, Alex said:

With friends like Clarko, who needs enemas? 

Fisted your post. 

[Monkeys Fist 42356]

5 minutes ago, Dougle said:

…best to just leave them to go back to whereever they spent their angry time before they discovered here.

 

We’ve had our fair share of trolls on here, they’re all transparent as fuck,( and we had this one sussed within hours), and all follow a very similar pattern; post, engage, fight. 
Most fuck off within 24hrs, but the ones that don’t go within that time tend not to go, until they’re “helped on their way”. 
Some are funny, some are sad, this bloke is just an online kidney stone. 

[Dr Gloom 21911]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

 

 

Honestly, I'm interested in your thoughts 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Dr Gloom

[Dougle 3329]

4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

We’ve had our fair share of trolls on here, they’re all transparent as fuck,( and we had this one sussed within hours), and all follow a very similar pattern; post, engage, fight. 
Most fuck off within 24hrs, but the ones that don’t go within that time tend not to go, until they’re “helped on their way”. 
Some are funny, some are sad, this bloke is just an online kidney stone. 

 

Troll or genuine fuck up, this one has some fucking stamina.

[Dr Gloom 21911]

1 hour ago, Clarko said:

Exhibit A.

Exhibit B

[PaddockLad 17239]

38 minutes ago, Clarko said:

I did ask you what I misconstrued previously and you responded by telling me to chill out, ignoring the question. You then post again, claiming I have misconstrued something for a second time (which I believed to be statistics) in a less than coherent sentence, you then accuse me of lacking English comprehension skills, when I point out the grammatical mistake in your comment and ask for clarification you refuse to clarify and claim if a foreigner can understand my bad English you should be able to as well...

 

Please can we move on from the above... For a third time? What have I misconstrued? 

 

And again, for the umpteenth time, no you cannot use "eyewitness testimony" or what you (think you) see, in a debate, it's not reliable and can be immediately canceled out by the opposition claiming they saw the opposite. Statistics are objective and factual.

I gave a brief outline of how scouts operate and then you got the dictionary out and repeated a lot of it back to me then you strongly suggested I’d said that scouts don’t use stats, when I said the opposite and suggested how important stats are to scouts. 
 

ASM is a great player to watch but as an effective attacker he’s inconsistent. That’s why he didn’t play for France in the summer, and Oliver Giroud did. Giroud played every game when they won the World Cup but didn’t contribute any goals, which for a central striker you’d think would immediately rule him out of being picked in any top level forward line. You’d have to watch him play to gauge his value to the starting 11 though and take into consideration what those around him contribute. Sure you could use stats to partly make that judgement, but it would be impossible to make a case for Giroud to be picked on his most important stat. He didn’t play as much this summer, Deschamps changed it.  This isn’t judging two players who play in completely different positions, it’s illustrating that you can’t just use dry stats when assessing a player.  
 

It’s easy for ASM to stick out like a sore thumb at Newcastle and without him if Bruce was in still charge we’d be fucked. He didn’t play well in the games after Bruce left and I don’t have a problem with anyone suggesting after they’ve actually watched his performances and read his Bruce tweet that he was in the huff, it’s just another indication of inconsistency and letting outside events affect your performance on the pitch. He’s not alone in that, 98% of players are the same. But that’s why he’s at Newcastle and not at Real Madrd and never will be…you’d have to watch him to work that out though… 

 

These are just opinions, quite mild ones really, I don’t care if you think I’m right or wrong . Have a pleasant evening

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by PaddockLad

[KentChris 18]

Long time lurker here, circa 12 years or so..... I felt obliged to join this forum just to say: Clarko you're patter is shite mate, as you were gentlemen 

[MrLogic 16]

3 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

I gave a brief outline of how scouts operate and then you got the dictionary out and repeated a lot of it back to me then you strongly suggested I’d said that scouts don’t use stats, when I said the opposite and suggested how important stats are to scouts. 
 

ASM is a great player to watch but as an effective attacker he’s inconsistent. That’s why he didn’t play for France in the summer, and Oliver Giroud did. Giroud played every game when they won the World Cup but didn’t contribute any goals, which for a central striker you’d think would immediately rule him out of being picked in any top level forward line. You’d have to watch him play to gauge his value to the starting 11 though and take into consideration what those around him contribute. Sure you could use stats to partly make that judgement, but it would be impossible to make a case for Giroud to be picked on his most important stat. He didn’t play as much this summer, Deschamps changed it.  This isn’t judging two players who play in completely different positions, it’s illustrating that you can’t use dry stats when assessing a player.  
 

It’s easy for ASM to stick out like a sore thumb at Newcastle and without him if Bruce was in still charge we’d be fucked. He didn’t play well in the games after Bruce left and I don’t have a problem with anyone suggesting after they’ve actually watched his performances and read his Bruce tweet that he was in the huff, it’s just another indication of inconsistency and letting outside events affect your performance on the pitch. He’s not alone in that, 98% of players are the same. But that’s why he’s at Newcastle and not at Real Madrd and never will be…you’d have to watch him to work that out though… 

 

These are just opinions, quite mild ones really, I don’t care if you think I’m right or wrong . Have a pleasant evening

I disagree on your brief first paragraph, based on extract below, you, in great detail, explained how unimportant statistics were in regards to scouts: 

 

'Care to suggest a scout at any football club who relies purely on stats though?  Because if that were the case they wouldn’t still exist. You’d have data collectors at every match (eg Opta etc) and those who process that data at clubs, scouts would be irrelevant. No one would go and watch a player, it would all be there on a screen and clubs would make their decisions on recruitment like that….football has changed a lot, you can find a lot of hidden points about a player by measurement. But to get a real feel for the player, his actual observable strengths and weaknesses and how he’d fit into a pattern of play he has to be watched.'

 

I would argue Saint-Maximin is effective and consistent as an attacker, over the last 365 days when compared to the forwards competing in the five main leagues and European competitions, he ranked in the 88th percentile for assists, the 94th percentile for key passes, the 94th percentile for shot creating actions, the 85th percentile for goal creating actions, 99th percentile for progressive carrying distance, 98th percentile for carriers into the penalty area and so on. That demonstrates that he's an extremely effective attacker. (All per 90 minutes played)

 

Likewise Giroud is effective, albeit in a different way to Saint-Maximin, for example he ranks in the 96th percentile for goals (he does score)... France have an extremely strong roster of players both in quality and quantity, Saint-Maximin is competing with the likes of Benzema, Mbappe, Diaby, Griezmann, Thuram, Martial, Lemar, Dembele and Ben Yedder, him not being selected for that national squad shouldn't be used as a means to evaluate his ability.

 

Again Saint-Maximin is consistent, if you go and look at the tables I posted previously, in his two and a half seasons in the Premier League, WhoScored have him ranked/rated as the 15th, 25th, and 21st best player in the league (out of ~500 players)... That is consistency, in the best league, for a poor Newcastle side...

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Clarko

[tooner 243]

38 minutes ago, Clarko said:

I disagree on your brief first paragraph, based on extract below, you, in great detail, explained how unimportant statistics were in regards to scouts: 

 

'Care to suggest a scout at any football club who relies purely on stats though?  Because if that were the case they wouldn’t still exist. You’d have data collectors at every match (eg Opta etc) and those who process that data at clubs, scouts would be irrelevant. No one would go and watch a player, it would all be there on a screen and clubs would make their decisions on recruitment like that….football has changed a lot, you can find a lot of hidden points about a player by measurement. But to get a real feel for the player, his actual observable strengths and weaknesses and how he’d fit into a pattern of play he has to be watched.'

 

I would argue Saint-Maximin is effective and consistent as an attacker, over the last 365 days when compared to the forwards competing in the five main leagues and European competitions, he ranked in the 88th percentile for assists, the 94th percentile for key passes, the 94th percentile for shot creating actions, the 85th percentile for goal creating actions, 99th percentile for progressive carrying distance, 98th percentile for carriers into the penalty area and so on. That demonstrates that he's an extremely effective attacker.

 

Likewise Giroud is effective, albeit in a different way to Saint-Maximin, for example he ranks in the 96th percentile for goals (he does score)... France have an extremely strong roster of players both in quality and quantity, Saint-Maximin is competing with the likes of Benzema, Mbappe, Diaby, Griezmann, Thuram, Martial, Lemar, Dembele and Ben Yedder, him not being selected for that national squad shouldn't be used as a means to evaluate his ability.

 

Again Saint-Maximin is consistent, if you go and look at the tables I posted previously, in his two and a half seasons in the Premier League, WhoScored have him ranked/rated as the 15th, 25th, and 21st best player in the league (out of ~500 players)... That is consistency, in the best league, for a poor Newcastle side...

 

 

[RobinRobin 11258]

9 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

When should I guillotine my choufleur? 

Cheese-eating surrender monkeyed YP

[spongebob toonpants 3992]

7 hours ago, tooner said:

 

Great song. I saw them in 1980. I assume on that tour

[barnabox 14]

8 hours ago, KentChris said:

Long time lurker here, circa 12 years or so..... I felt obliged to join this forum just to say: Clarko you're patter is shite mate, as you were gentlemen 

I am also a long time lurker (mainly cos I can't be arsed with all the typing involved with conversations by text), but you've achieved something remarkable Clarko. You've motivated me to put thumb to screen to agree with Kentchris, your patter really is shite!

[Dr Gloom 21911]

Can everyone please stop engaging with Mr Logic? Hopefully he’ll get the message. If not ban him for crimes against banter 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Dr Gloom

[Howmanheyman 33098]

9 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

He's loaded up on buckfast, Gloomy, it'll pass.

8 hours ago, KentChris said:

Long time lurker here, circa 12 years or so..... I felt obliged to join this forum just to say: Clarko you're patter is shite mate, as you were gentlemen 

Used to work with a bloke called Kent, his nickname was Cunty Kenty styled on the roots character. You can just be Chris as you seem canny enough. 😉👌

[Gemmill 44796]

8 hours ago, KentChris said:

Long time lurker here, circa 12 years or so..... I felt obliged to join this forum just to say: Clarko you're patter is shite mate, as you were gentlemen 

Stick around, new person. 

[Gemmill 44796]

17 minutes ago, barnabox said:

I am also a long time lurker (mainly cos I can't be arsed with all the typing involved with conversations by text), but you've achieved something remarkable Clarko. You've motivated me to put thumb to screen to agree with Kentchris, your patter really is shite!

You too!