Joelinton

[Christmas Tree 4725]

This is where I struggle with all this talk of midfielders coming in. There can’t be too many out there who have all the qualities that we currently have in Willock, Bruno, Joelinton and even Longstaff.

 

They just all seem so versatile and only getting better.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

13 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

This is where I struggle with all this talk of midfielders coming in. There can’t be too many out there who have all the qualities that we currently have in Willock, Bruno, Joelinton and even Longstaff.

 

They just all seem so versatile and only getting better.

we’re going to need depth when we’re playing 4 tournaments next season 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

15 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

we’re going to need depth when we’re playing 4 tournaments next season 

Aye, I understand that, I just struggle to see better all round performers in some of these “top players” that we get linked with.

[Alex 35059]

15 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Aye, I understand that, I just struggle to see better all round performers in some of these “top players” that we get linked with.

Trust the recruitment policy. Everyone signs the odd duff one but we certainly seem to be doing our research. I know what you mean though. We’ve been so impressive that you kind of think they have to be top drawer, definitely improve the starting XI or they’re young prospects instead. There doesn’t seem much point in Burn / Targett type signings this summer (nowt against those two either) 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Alex

[Christmas Tree 4725]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Trust the recruitment policy. Everyone signs the odd duff one but we certainly seem to be doing our research. I know what you mean though. We’ve been so impressive that you kind of think they have to be top drawer, definitely improve the starting XI or they’re young prospects instead. There doesn’t seem much point in Burn / Targett type signings this summer (nowt against those two either) 

Exactly.

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

56 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Aye, I understand that, I just struggle to see better all round performers in some of these “top players” that we get linked with.

whoever comes in will have to sign up to the way Howe wants them to play and will need to wait for their chance. Whether someone such as Maddison, Conor Gallagher or Declan Rice can play in Howe’s system better than Willock, Joelinton or Bruno remains to be seen but we defo need more players. Agree with Alex. The recruitment so far has been unbelievably successful. It’s highly unlikely the hit rate will continue to be this good. Only Wood has flopped really and even then he did a job when we were desperate 

[john 59]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

Nothing earth shattering to read, but nice to see him getting the plaudits.

 

I'd love to see him get his goals tally to double figures for the season. Just the three needed from the next 7. Piece of piss.

 

A couple of years ago I had written him off and honestly thought he was stealing a living , I am happy to be proved wrong and I think he has been our best and most consistent player this season, his close control is fantastic and he rarely ever wastes a pass, his transformation under howe is nothing short of amazing.

[ohhh_yeah 2964]

 

   

 

 

[The Fish 10849]

16 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

This is where I struggle with all this talk of midfielders coming in. There can’t be too many out there who have all the qualities that we currently have in Willock, Bruno, Joelinton and even Longstaff.

 

They just all seem so versatile and only getting better.

I know we've been playing well, and I know that Howe has improved all the squad to some degree, but there are many, many better footballers than Willock, and Longstaff at the very least. There's also a gaping hole in our squad for a proper, true blue, specialist defensive midfielder. Bruno, Joelinton, Willock and Longstaff are all front foot thinking midfielders. Sure they contribute defensively, but that's not what their focus is, or should be. 

 

I know I've been banging the drum for Rice and I know it's not likely, but that kind of player is what we need. You'd see the team able to control possession more with a metronomic player, Bruno would be able to play further up the pitch and involve himself more around the box. It would mean those players would not have such high demands put on them in terms of fitness. Which means we'd be able to sustain a higher level of energy longer and more frequently. 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I know we've been playing well, and I know that Howe has improved all the squad to some degree, but there are many, many better footballers than Willock, and Longstaff at the very least. There's also a gaping hole in our squad for a proper, true blue, specialist defensive midfielder. Bruno, Joelinton, Willock and Longstaff are all front foot thinking midfielders. Sure they contribute defensively, but that's not what their focus is, or should be. 

 

I know I've been banging the drum for Rice and I know it's not likely, but that kind of player is what we need. You'd see the team able to control possession more with a metronomic player, Bruno would be able to play further up the pitch and involve himself more around the box. It would mean those players would not have such high demands put on them in terms of fitness. Which means we'd be able to sustain a higher level of energy longer and more frequently. 

 

i used to think that about bruno, based on what he did last season with shelvey behind him, but he can play the modern "number 6 role" about as good as anyone i've seen. he can do all the physical stuff: pressing and harrying with positional intelligence, while also retrieving the ball in tight situations and starting attacks off from deep. he won't get as many goals and assists but he has been a massive upgrade on shelvey in that position and is one of the main reasons we're where we are in the table this season. 

 

i'd be happy if we sign a DM which frees bruno up to play further forwards, but i don't see many players who can perform that role better than bruno has this season. i'd be equally happy signing an understudy at DM to rotate with Bruno, and someone like Maddison to play in one of the more advanced midfield role. we need depth in AM and DM, but i've no problem whatsoever if bruno starts next season again as first choice DM. 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

16 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I know we've been playing well, and I know that Howe has improved all the squad to some degree, but there are many, many better footballers than Willock, and Longstaff at the very least. There's also a gaping hole in our squad for a proper, true blue, specialist defensive midfielder. Bruno, Joelinton, Willock and Longstaff are all front foot thinking midfielders. Sure they contribute defensively, but that's not what their focus is, or should be. 

 

I know I've been banging the drum for Rice and I know it's not likely, but that kind of player is what we need. You'd see the team able to control possession more with a metronomic player, Bruno would be able to play further up the pitch and involve himself more around the box. It would mean those players would not have such high demands put on them in terms of fitness. Which means we'd be able to sustain a higher level of energy longer and more frequently. 

What gloom said is where I’m at

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Who’s role would Maddison take if he was here now?

[Alex 35059]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Who’s role would Maddison take if he was here now?

That’s a good point. Assuming the formation stays largely unchanged I would say he’s one of the wide front men (although they obviously interchange a lot with Willock / Longstaff anyway). I don’t think we’ll sign him though. Rice would definitely be a great addition but we’ll have lots of competition 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Alex

[Dr Gloom 21912]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

Who’s role would Maddison take if he was here now?

 

one of the central midfield positions in front of the DM, though he can also play out wide. 

 

he's best role is probably the classic number 10 behind the striker, but that would mean tweaking the formation from the 4-3-3 which has served us so well 

[Holden McGroin 6581]

Not sure he has the engine or work rate to play number 8 in our system at the moment. Of course Eddie could wave his magic wand at him.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Holden McGroin

[toonotl 2977]

It is an interesting question on the place Maddison would have in the starting XI. It feels like he isn't an exact fit for the Howe-type in terms of slotting into the 4-3-3 system with one relatively stationary 6 and two 8s who are full of running with and without the ball. His suitability as a signing probably hinges on whether Howe envisages adopting a 4-2-3-1 system regularly in the future or not because I agree with Gloomy that his best position is probably as a no. 10 in that system. That's not to say that he couldn't play as an 8 or a wide player in the 4-3-3 system and do so brilliantly as he's a class player but the style of player in those positions that Howe prefers seems a little different to Maddison.

 

Maybe it remains to be seen as there must be interest there based on the amount of noise around his potential transfer to us. I'd be surprised if there isn't a good deal of truth in it. It would be wonderful if his signing coincided with another 6 to allow us to play that 4-2-3-1 system with two new signings with Bruno in the 3-man midfield setup. Howe has stated numerous times that he isn't averse to switching systems and I think the time to see on that score is yet to come as the skinniness of the squad has really limited flexibility so far.

[Andrew 4747]

53 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

one of the central midfield positions in front of the DM, though he can also play out wide. 

 

he's best role is probably the classic number 10 behind the striker, but that would mean tweaking the formation from the 4-3-3 which has served us so well 

 

We do have to evolve though, assuming we stay the course and are in the CL this season I am really fascinated to see how the summer plays out, you look at our starting 11 from this week and you'd say you find replacements for Murphy, Longstaff and probably Burn as a priority.

 

But when you look at how we've played with them this season, you can't be sure anyone would some in and be actually better as part of this team, where do you go from this? Spend 70 million on someone for central midfield and in all likeliness you don't massively improve your league position compared to having Sean Longstaff there.

 

The summer and next season are full of really weird, unexpected challenges for the club because we've done so ridiculously well this season, the playing staff and the style of play need to continue their evolution and thats going to make keeping the level of performance where we've seen it this season really difficult. Its going to be a test of Howes mettle, as well as the boards and the fans to not blink when its maybe not going as well.

[Toonpack 9385]

18 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

The summer and next season are full of really weird, unexpected challenges for the club because we've done so ridiculously well this season, the playing staff and the style of play need to continue their evolution and thats going to make keeping the level of performance where we've seen it this season really difficult. Its going to be a test of Howes mettle, as well as the boards and the fans to not blink when its maybe not going as well.

 

We've been doing it for a season and half now, I seem to recall our form from January 22 to end of last season was verging on CL worthy (if done over a season).

 

We've continued that, the extra fixtures mean we need to strengthen the squad significantly. IMO by replacing the bottom end of our squad depth with quality competition for the top end of the squad, whoever those new players end up being, in terms of playing, they need to earn it.

 

 

[The Fish 10849]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i used to think that about bruno, based on what he did last season with shelvey behind him, but he can play the modern "number 6 role" about as good as anyone i've seen. he can do all the physical stuff: pressing and harrying with positional intelligence, while also retrieving the ball in tight situations and starting attacks off from deep. he won't get as many goals and assists but he has been a massive upgrade on shelvey in that position and is one of the main reasons we're where we are in the table this season. 

 

i'd be happy if we sign a DM which frees bruno up to play further forwards, but i don't see many players who can perform that role better than bruno has this season. i'd be equally happy signing an understudy at DM to rotate with Bruno, and someone like Maddison to play in one of the more advanced midfield role. we need depth in AM and DM, but i've no problem whatsoever if bruno starts next season again as first choice DM. 

 

Yeah Bruno is amazing at the DM position, but stick someone of Rice's calibre in that role and Bruno can move further forward and replace Longstaff/Willock. 

 

I wouldn't be devastated if we didn't strengthen DM, but I think it's a position that the team would really benefit from strengthening. And, more importantly, I want Declan Rice.

[OTF 7295]

I love Dan Burn, he's been a brilliant signing and his passion is contagious. There's not much better than watching a player who will bleed for his team mates and the club giving his all.... but he's not a natural left back and he offers next to no attacking impetus when he gets forward. If we want to provide more balance to our forward play we need a natural attack minded fullback on the left. We need to at least try one out.

 

The higher your profile becomes the more teams will come at you. You get one season where there is a little leeway and opponents underestimate you - the perfect example is Leicester when they won the title, it was mostly counter attack based and still teams playing them thought they could push up and beat them only to be hit on the counter again and again. For us if you were looking for a weakness it would be the mobility of our defense, starting with Burn.

[Andrew 4747]

1 minute ago, OTF said:

I love Dan Burn, he's been a brilliant signing and his passion is contagious. There's not much better than watching a player who will bleed for his team mates and the club giving his all.... but he's not a natural left back and he offers next to no attacking impetus when he gets forward. If we want to provide more balance to our forward play we need a natural attack minded fullback on the left. We need to at least try one out.

 

The higher your profile becomes the more teams will come at you. You get one season where there is a little leeway and opponents underestimate you - the perfect example is Leicester when they won the title, it was mostly counter attack based and still teams playing them thought they could push up and beat them only to be hit on the counter again and again. For us if you were looking for a weakness it would be the mobility of our defense, starting with Burn.

 

Agreed, as for that evolution of style I mentioned, I'd like us to get in a really good number 6 who can drop into the centre of defence and a left back at trippiers level so that we still have the 3 man defence when we are on attack but we're more able to swap which side we do the attacking from with overlaps on both sides.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

10 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

Yeah Bruno is amazing at the DM position, but stick someone of Rice's calibre in that role and Bruno can move further forward and replace Longstaff/Willock. 

 

I wouldn't be devastated if we didn't strengthen DM, but I think it's a position that the team would really benefit from strengthening. And, more importantly, I want Declan Rice.

 

we should definitely strengthen DM, as bruno is the only player who excels in that role. i wouldn't mind though if we bring in a capable understudy and bruno continues as first choice there and we invesr more money on attacking midfielders. i don't know if rice is better at DM than bruno tbh. that's not to say i wouldn't like both in the squad 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

3 minutes ago, OTF said:

I love Dan Burn, he's been a brilliant signing and his passion is contagious. There's not much better than watching a player who will bleed for his team mates and the club giving his all.... but he's not a natural left back and he offers next to no attacking impetus when he gets forward. If we want to provide more balance to our forward play we need a natural attack minded fullback on the left. We need to at least try one out.

 

The higher your profile becomes the more teams will come at you. You get one season where there is a little leeway and opponents underestimate you - the perfect example is Leicester when they won the title, it was mostly counter attack based and still teams playing them thought they could push up and beat them only to be hit on the counter again and again. For us if you were looking for a weakness it would be the mobility of our defense, starting with Burn.

 

left back is the glaring weak spot in the squad. lack of depth there, in centre mid and centre half, where lascelles is currently third choice

[OTF 7295]

4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

left back is the glaring weak spot in the squad. lack of depth there, in centre mid and centre half, where lascelles is currently third choice

 

Technically Dan Burn should be third choice centre half. Lascelles to his credit has looked much better in the slim chances he has has this season to the degree where I'm OK with him being fourth choice. Beyond him though it would be playing Krafth 2.Eddie (remember him) at CB.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3887]

8 minutes ago, OTF said:

 

Technically Dan Burn should be third choice centre half. Lascelles to his credit has looked much better in the slim chances he has has this season to the degree where I'm OK with him being fourth choice. Beyond him though it would be playing Krafth 2.Eddie (remember him) at CB.

Are you asking if Eddie remembers Krafth?