Where Now?

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

From the day he was appointed we've all been saying we don't believe he's up to the job.Come Xmas,or earlier, we'll know for definite,and Mrs D will definitely be informed by the fans.

[t00nraider2 41]

... or one point off fifth? We held our own against a recent Premier league winning club and not long beat a Champions League finalist team!  So reasons to not be too downcast!

Edited August 29, 2019 by t00nraider2

[Sonatine 11391]

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Not too bad against Arsenal 

Shite attitude against Norwich

Decent performance against Tottenham

More positives than negatives regarding performances.

[Alex 35095]

3 hours ago, t00nraider2 said:

... or one point off fifth? We held our own against a recent Premier league winning club and not long beat a Champions League finalist team!  So reasons to not be too downcast!

Until you fucking post anyway 

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

7 hours ago, t00nraider2 said:

... or one point off fifth? We held our own against a recent Premier league winning club and not long beat a Champions League finalist team!  So reasons to not be too downcast!

[PaddockLad 17281]

FORMATTING TASTIC!

 

Carragher in the Telegraph...

 

 

For the last two years I have made a confident prediction about Newcastle United; they will not be relegated.

Rafa Benitez was the reason. This was based on simple logic. He was the best and most successful manager working in the bottom half of the Premier League. It was a natural assumption that over the course of 38 games he would navigate his team to the necessary number of points. 

Benitez’s departure in the summer - a sadly predictable exit from Tyneside - has removed that security blanket so Newcastle fans have understandably spent the last few months in a familiar state of high anxiety.

While Benitez was at St James’ Park those fans had hope. Instead of channeling all their emotions in a negative direction against owner Mike Ashley in the ongoing off-field battles, they had the consolation of believing they were in safe hands on the pitch.  

Now that glimmer of light has been extinguished it feels like Newcastle are returning to the pre-Benitez era where it was not only the board the supporters could not tolerate, but also the coach. Steve McClaren and Alan Pardew were not wanted when they were appointed and the mood never changed. 

Pardew could not even shake off the ‘cockney mafia’ jibes when he finished 5th and was named Manager of the Year in 2012.

There was a different vibe around the popular Benitez and the disliked Pardew because of what Rafa represented - a sexy, Champions League-winning name with a glowing CV and the promise of things getting better.

Yet Benitez was an anomaly in the North East. Look at the list of Newcastle managers since Bobby Robson was sacked in 2004. I could not believe it when Newcastle lured Benitez. Neither could the supporters and they sometimes behaved that way, deferring to his every word as if they dare not question such an esteemed manager. He was empowered to speak in a manner those before him were not and certain performances - certainly the most timid - were tolerated in a way they will not be if another, less prestigious name made his side play in the same way. He left for a mega deal in China with supporters directing their fury at the board for not blinking in contract talks. That is the power of a reputation.

For Steve Bruce the opposite is true. Bruce knew he was walking into a hurricane on Tyneside following Benitez. After three Premier League games he probably thinks it is even more tempestuous than imagined. I fear, rather like Pardew, there is nothing he can do to change minds.

 

Bruce enjoyed a timely victory away at Tottenham Hotspur last weekend. In fact, it was probably Newcastle’s best away result since their last promotion - not even Benitez won at a top-six venue. At any other club such a result early in a reign would be universally acknowledged as reassuring - the first step in winning over fans. Instead, Bruce’s moment of triumph seemed to be received with as much cynicism as jubilitation. 

“He won using Rafa’s tactics,” was one of the more ridiculous accusations directed at Bruce after the Spurs win, as though setting up a team to be defensively organised and steal a goal on the counter-attack is some kind of radical blueprint.

If managers like Rafa are to be heaped with praise for executing such a plan against the best teams in the country, it is hypocritical not to do likewise for Bruce. Judge the game, not the man.

I have sympathy for Newcastle fans who want and demand more for their club. Whenever we discuss Newcastle we explore similar territory, Ashley unable - or more likely unwilling - to do what is necessary to maximise the potential of his purchase

 

When you read about Sunderland on the verge of receiving investment from a consortium led by the world’s 25th wealthiest man, you have to ask why similar bids do not materialise at Newcastle? The accusation Ashley is setting an unrealistic price has merit.

But some of the criticism aimed at Bruce since he joined is disgraceful. I read elements of the coverage of the Carabao Cup exit to Leicester City - an unlucky defeat on penalties against a superior Premier League side - and its tone was far more negative than when Newcastle lost to Nottingham Forest in the same round a year ago. When you look at social media it feels like some fans want their team to lose to prove them right.

It would be a cliche for me to sit here and write, ‘give Bruce a chance’. Supporters will make their judgement on a managerial appointment and it is pointless to tell anyone to be excited when they evidently are not. If I was a Newcastle supporter I would feel similarly underwhelmed by Ashley’s choice of coach. The 20 Premier League jobs are among the most sought after in the world and - with respect to Bruce - Newcastle fans will have looked around Europe and considered there must be a candidate out there who would have caught their imagination more than an ex-Sunderland manager. Had an up-and-coming manager such as Steven Gerrard or Patrick Vieira been convinced to take on the challenge there would have been a buzz similar to Frank Lampard’s return to Chelsea

 

That does not mean we should entirely dismiss the possibility Bruce can not perform well. The bar is not set amazingly high. Benitez did a good job, not an extraordinary one.

What exactly is Bruce following? The target for the last two seasons has been to keep Newcastle in the Premier League. They did so finishing 10th and 13th but they were in the bottom three at the halfway stage in both those campaigns so let’s not pretend it was anything more than a relegation fight. The miserable domestic cup record - which has lasted decades - continued and the style of football was at best pragmatic. I believe the performance we saw from Newcastle against Liverpool at the end of last season should have been more frequent at St James’ Park. 

Set aside the recent history of Newcastle, the loathing of Ashley and the despair at Benitez’s departure, and it seems those supporters directing vitriol at Bruce before he has been given a fair crack at the job are shooting the wrong target. 

Bruce’s overall management record deserves respect. Let’s not forget he walked away from a Premier League job at Hull City after leading them to promotion because he could no longer work with the owner. It underlines his integrity. Sheffield Wednesday supporters may argue otherwise given his decision to leave them for his boyhood club, but 99 per cent of managers would have done the same

 

Just as the broader problem at Newcastle was not Benitez, it is not Bruce. Nor for that matter was it Pardew, McClaren, Glenn Roeder, Alan Shearer or Kevin Keegan.

Bruce’s appointment reflects where Newcastle are as a club and have been for too long - in that tier of clubs battling to stay in the Premier League that will never challenge for the European places without better and more expensive recruitment.

As a shrewd and political football operator, Benitez was able to present himself as a potential cure to the ills of the Ashley reign and the fans went with it.

I fear for Bruce because he is already being presented as a symptom of the toxicity of the regime.  

Most new managers can expect a brief honeymoon period. All Bruce has heard since he was appointed is a section of his own supporters looking ahead to the inevitable divorce.

[sammynb 3357]

8 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

Benitez did a good job, not an extraordinary one.

 

The above statement shows how little Carragher knows about NUFC.

Carragher didn't like Benitez did he?

I think I remember reading how he gave him credit for making him a better player but didn't like his methods, so basicaly he's disparaging the man and then accusing Newcastle supporters of having a bias against Mrs Doubtfire because "Bruce's overall management record deserves respect!" 

Oh this shit management records?

Quote

Games managed: 904
Wins: 348
Draws: 227
Defeats: 329
Career win percentage: 38.5%
Average length of reign: 708 days

 

Fuck off and play with your hubcap collection, fucking bin dipping idiot.

[Kid Dynamite 7030]

It reads like a reasonable summation of things to me. 

[ewerk 30620]

I think he’s being a bit overly generous to Bruce. Describing his resignation at Hull as an act of integrity while neglecting to mention that shortly before he had interviewed for the England job without informing the club.

He also ignores the reasons for Rafa’s leaving, instead stating that he left for a big money deal in China.

Overall though, nothing to get annoyed about.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I think the Scouse Roy Hattersley makes some reasonable points and is generally sympathetic to our plight under Ashley.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13873]

Worth remembering that “Carra” and Neville both wet the bed because of our set-up against Man City because they wanted goals to talk about. Fuck the pair of them.

[Howmanheyman 33245]

Can never understand the fascination with their views particularly regarding NUFC. 

[Howay 12496]

The CL coverage when Mourinho joined them is class. It’s Carragher and Neville discussing tactics, and acting like it’s very complex before Mourinho starts talking “no, it is simple, these are all simple principles”  Then to top it all off Souness interrupts Mourinho to basically say it’s all bollocks, just hoy the players out there and tell them to get stuck in. 

 

Most of what he said is ok, it’s definitely trying to paint Bruce in a good light though, when the fact is he’s a terrible manager. I’m not willing to ‘give him a chance’ as firstly, why should I? But also I don’t need 10 games to form my opinion that Bruce is shite, I already know it based on his career. The only thing is I don’t really care about him being sacked or not, we’d just bring in a manager who will be just as shite. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Howay

[Howmanheyman 33245]

Sky's pundits, in fact a lot of them elsewhere, are just talkers of pure rhubarb. It's just quite funny how some of the younger football fans wank over 'Carra' and 'GNev'.

[thebrokendoll 9244]

4 hours ago, Howmanheyman said:

Sky's pundits, in fact a lot of them elsewhere, are just talkers of pure rhubarb. It's just quite funny how some of the younger football fans wank over 'Carra' and 'GNev'.

 

 

that's absolutely disgusting.

 

was debbie harry in my era.

[sammynb 3357]

13 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I think the Scouse Roy Hattersley makes some reasonable points and is generally sympathetic to our plight under Ashley.

 

Does he though?

The only thing I get out of this sort of opinion piece is cunts like Carragher want to keep telling us that Benitez was to good for NUFC and that Bruce/Pardew is the level we deserve and we're not grateful for them.

Which is absolute horse shit.

Rafa chose to be at Newcastle, he could see the club's potential and even with a little support he would have eventually won something. Which worried the pundits who are of the "big club ilk" because a successful NUFC would just grow and grow.

[wykikitoon 20156]

19 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Worth remembering that “Carra” and Neville both wet the bed because of our set-up against Man City because they wanted goals to talk about. Fuck the pair of them.

Yet them cunts and sourness wank about how genius other teams are when they set up similar against them. The hypocritical cunts 

[Howay 12496]

5 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

Yet them cunts and sourness wank about how genius other teams are when they set up similar against them. The hypocritical cunts 

Aye, the CL game where Chelsea beat Barca is a classic example of that. They pull themselves daft over that, yet we set up similar against Man City we get pelters. The reality is if anyone should get pelters for that it should be Chelsea, as it’s likely Chelsea had outspent Barca. 

[thebrokendoll 9244]

venue of 'the famous european nights' looming large.

odds of 25/1 for an away win.

after predicting a 8-0 howking by tottenham, i'm inclined to do the same again whilst secretly sticking a tenner on brucey pulling off a shock, dedicated to mike, 0-3 victory with an almiron hatrick!