ewerk 31313 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Never trust a man with a goatee beard, particularly a middle aged man with a goatee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4890 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Corbyn two minutes ago. "Financial crash of 2008 when governments step back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) What we're seeing here is the Politics thread about to take over the whole forum I mentioned it in the Politics thread so I may as well mention it here in its rightful place - I watched 'That Sugar Film' recently which details the evils of Fructose and how they put it in everything, how it is all over 'healthy weight loss foods', and how it is more responsible for obesity than fat. Which I personally found staggering when you think that we're trying to combat obesity at a national level, and we're not even combatting the right thing. Surprisingly entertaining film, although I think the kind of humour the main guy has would grate for some people. Edited September 28, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Bottom line is the government(s) knew it was a bubble that was unsustainable. What they didn't know was when it would go pop or how severe the consequences would be. They chose not to listen or investigate and allowed it to continue. Guilty. No they didn't, did you actually listen to what they were saying in the film? People thought it was absolutely insane that a bloke would bet against it as it's generally a given that land will always appreciate so loans on it will never be underwater. The entire movie is about a very small group of people that noticed oddities and bet against the market so it's ridiculous to say the government saw it coming, as I said there was no such product as a credit default swap against mortgage backed securities it was invented for Burry and fashioned from other credit swap products that weren't commonly used that is the level to how improbable people thought it was. These tranches were disguised as premium bonds as the risk on them was so diversified and hidden behind levels of legitimately good mortgages that they said there was no way a significant amount of them could default causing that security to effectively become junk, Moody's and Standard and Poor (the rating agencies) are staffed by a lot of people that didn't make it into these front office investment banking jobs so they missed this and the Government regulatory staff are even further down the list in getting quality candidates (no disrespect to anyone that works for Moodys, S&P or Government, just speaking in general terms it's not like I'm at GS working in IB). No body knew when it would go pop or what the consequences would be no one had any idea it would happen, even Burry and co had no idea about those things they simply had a theory that it would come at some point when no one else was looking or paying attention as like I say it's always been a given that land appreciates in value. Where Governments fucked up is loosening regulations on banks in order to attract them to do business but this is exactly what the Tories have wanted and have been doing themselves, if you are going to point a finger at the Government in general and attribute some blame then that is fine but to put it squarely at the door of Labour for them not seeing something that everyone bar a handful of people in the world spotted is absurd. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35731 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Corbyn two minutes ago. "Financial crash of 2008 when governments step back". What did he think of the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35731 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 What we're seeing here is the Politics thread about to take over the whole forum I mentioned it in the Politics thread so I may as well mention it here in its rightful place - I watched 'That Sugar Film' recently which details the evils of Fructose and how they put it in everything, how it is all over 'healthy weight loss foods', and how it is more responsible for obesity than fat. Which I personally found staggering when you think that we're trying to combat obesity at a national level, and we're not even combatting the right thing. Surprisingly entertaining film, although I think the kind of humour the main guy has would grate for some people. Taking his Henry's Cat act to a wider audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Corbyn two minutes ago. "Financial crash of 2008 when governments step back". Aye he wants greater regulation on banks, that isn't him claiming the Government knew it was coming and just got the popcorn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4890 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 What did he think of the film? Preferred Bruce Almighty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4890 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Aye he wants greater regulation on banks, that isn't him claiming the Government knew it was coming and just got the popcorn out. If you have a bubble and it's unsustainable, eventually it's going to crash. Governments hustled wanted to milk the good times like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Read my larger post no one saw it as unsustainable ffs that is why Burry was laughed at, as I said the Government has some blame but it's mostly in the aftermath where their blame lies and in preventative measures not in failing to catch it while it was happening. It's also a systemic issue with Government as I get you are trying to imply that this was a fault of Labour, the Conservatives wouldn't have done it any different, just look at the US for an example of what I mean it happened all while Republicans were in charge but you had bank deregulation under Clinton. Hindsight is 20/20. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Howay, you don't post in the Politics thread much so you may not be aware of this - your rational line of reasoning doesn't work on CT. He has transcended logic and rationality - he is now able to manipulate the truths of the universe as he sees fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Howay, you don't post in the Politics thread much so you may not be aware of this - your rational line of reasoning doesn't work on CT. He has transcended logic and rationality - he is now able to manipulate the truths of the universe as he sees fit. I occasionally pop my head in there but it's mostly people that know far more than I about the issue so I wind my neck in and keep quiet, but you're right this is like talking to a wall... you're right CT the Government should have divested itself of any gold they had and lumped it all on a product that had been invented that year, ignoring the fact that nobody bar a tiny handful of people had any possible belief that it could happen (not far off telling people of 12th century Britain there was no god) as well as ignoring the massive swing that would have happened if that volume of money had been placed on that bet which would have no doubt caused banks to instantly tighten up to defend against it meaning it may never have happened resulting in the Government losing incredible amounts of money. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31313 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Strange how his good buddy McDonnell was insistent that they need to be fighting the narrative that Labour were responsible for the 2008 crash yet according to CT Corbyn has just said the opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I occasionally pop my head in there but it's mostly people that know far more than I about the issue so I wind my neck in and keep quiet, but you're right this is like talking to a wall... you're right CT the Government should have divested itself of any gold they had and lumped it all on a product that had been invented that year, ignoring the fact that nobody bar a tiny handful of people had any possible belief that it could happen (not far off telling people of 12th century Britain there was no god) as well as ignoring the massive swing that would have happened if that volume of money had been placed on that bet which would have no doubt caused banks to instantly tighten up to defend against it meaning it may never have happened resulting in the Government losing incredible amounts of money. You sound pretty well informed to be honest, I would throw your opinion in there anyway if you have something to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Strange how his good buddy McDonnell was insistent that they need to be fighting the narrative that Labour were responsible for the 2008 crash yet according to CT Corbyn has just said the opposite... Different reasons though isn't it? i.e. the Tory version of events is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35731 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Howay, if I may use an analogy, discussing politics with CT is akin to discussing football with CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) You sound pretty well informed to be honest, I would throw your opinion in there anyway if you have something to say. Thanks, I know a little about this mainly because I'm a nerdy accountant and have read the Big Short as well as most of Michael Lewis' other books (he's my favorite author, I've already qualified that I'm a nerd). When it comes to politics in general I tend to get lost as I find it hard to keep track of all the major events you guys talk about in there, as well as the fact I've lost touch with UK politics a bit since I moved to the US. Howay, if I may use an analogy, discussing politics with CT is akin to discussing football with CT. Point taken, I was going to give him the Leicester analogy for how unforeseen the bubble bursting was but sensed it would be lost and went with the 12th century Britain thing. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Howay, if I may use an analogy, discussing politics with CT is akin to discussing football with CT. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thanks, I know a little about this mainly because I'm a nerdy accountant and have read the Big Short as well as most of Michael Lewis' other books (his my favorite author, I've already qualified that I'm a nerd). When it comes to politics in general I tend to get lost as I find it hard to keep track of all the major events you guys talk about in there, as well as the fact I've lost touch with UK politics a bit since I moved to the US. Wow didn't realise you were even in the US - whereabouts? Fair enough though (that said, we have a healthy discussion going on US politics as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Wow didn't realise you were even in the US - whereabouts? Fair enough though (that said, we have a healthy discussion going on US politics as well). I live in Northern NJ, coincidentally in a town almost entirely populated by investment bankers (that was my aim as well but alas I'm an accountant hence the no insult intended to any Moodys/S&P people). I occasionally comment in the US politics thread but Trump terrifies/depresses me too much. Anyway I've completely derailed this topic, I watched Triple 9 recently and thought it was pretty pish . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has gone from arguing that Labour caused the crisis by spending far too much on services we couldn't afford (services the Tories are right to cut) to arguing that they turned a blind eye to complex financial instruments that nobody in the city had either eye on (instruments the Tories still alllow to trade). And he's tried to frame this as a consistent view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has gone from arguing that Labour caused the crisis by spending far too much on services we couldn't afford (services the Tories are right to cut) to arguing that they turned a blind eye to complex financial instruments that nobody in the city had either eye on (instruments the Tories still alllow to trade). And he's tried to frame this as a consistent view. I'm more impressed that he sat through a film about how no body saw any way the housing market would crash except a handful of people (who were all on the fringes) and what he took from it was that it was clear to any and everybody that it was an unsustainable bubble that would definitely crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Pointing out the irrationality of CT's arguments is like pointing out when your dog does a particularly messy shit tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22159 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has also criticised Brown for selling the gold and criticised Brown for not selling the gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5405 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has also criticised Brown for selling the gold and criticised Brown for not selling the gold. I thought that too but wasn't sure if even CT could be that contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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