Newcastle United: Club Sold To PCP - Official

[Polarboy 2311]

1 hour ago, strawb said:

Rafa Benitez’s Real Madrid scored 2.76 goals per game, including a 10 - 2 victory. Pragmatic.

 

Do you really understand the logic of what you are arguing. When you are managing Real, have Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Rodriquez etc, and are playing Eibar, Getafe, Levante etc, then yes even if you are playing a counter attacking style you will score a lot of goals. Indeed you will at times even score three or four against your rivals, but it's still a fundamentally cautious approach, which will pay massive dividends against very weak opposition such as there is in La Liga. 

 

1 hour ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Yet you're making the same one against Benitez. His Liverpool side was limited and his pragmatism turned them into European Champions. His Valencia side beat Barca and.Real Madrid to not one but two titles. His pragmatism has been present thriughout his career successes (note successes because he has actually won things) because his major achievements haven't been with the "top" clubs respectively. To say that Benitez couldn't cut his cloth when we'd be massively investing is the most asinine. 

 

The Real Madrid situation was different. Trying to instill discipline into a side already littered with superstars was always going to be difficult. Our players already know and have bought into his philosophy, and any top signings would be joining a group already on Rafa's wavelength.

 

No I'm not and you are again misunderstanding what I've written either intentionally or unintentionally. I haven't once said that Benitez couldn't be successful at the club again, or that he hasn't been successful with his style of play in the past. His success isn't deniable. I merely questioned if his way of playing is still relevant at the very top end of things, and stated my preference for attacking football. I don't know the answer to the question of how successful he would be if he had the resources to take on Klopp, Guardiola etc. And what I've been saying repeatedly is that Benitez's style of counter attacking play has never changed. He's not going to suddenly start playing attacking football. So I'm not really sure if you even know what point you are trying to make with regard to cutting ones cloth. Managers generally have a distinct football philosophy, and only change if it really calls for it in particular circumstances and matches. And how many times does it have to be said. Rafa didn't change the way he played at Real regardless of the riches he had round in the playing staff.

 

53 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Poch wasn’t in charge of transfers at Spurs though.

 

He didn't say he wasn't in charge, he just said he didn't have total control like Pep. I think what he was trying to say was that he had input, but Levy had the final say on comings and goings if it made sense to his bottom line. Lets just say that Sissoko was Levy's idea https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11751098/tottenham-boss-mauricio-pochettino-says-he-doesnt-have-final-say-on-transfers

Edited May 23, 2020 by Polarboy

[Tom 14011]

31 minutes ago, Alex said:

More importantly, should we re-sign Mitrovic? 

Did you get that email I sent about the Hitzfield dossier?

[Polarboy 2311]

56 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

The Real Madrid situation was different. Trying to instill discipline into a side already littered with superstars was always going to be difficult. Our players already know and have bought into his philosophy, and any top signings would be joining a group already on Rafa's wavelength.

 

As for it being difficult to instil discipline into big name players, that's hopefully the job a manager at our club will have to do. If modern players are put off by a counter attacking style of play, and would rather be in teams that play like Klopp, Pep's etc sides, then that's something the club with have to consider.

[Dr Gloom 21868]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

Is there nothing to be said for giving Steve Bruce another chance?

I could think of a few things to say about that

[Tdansmith 3247]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I could think of a few things to say about that

[Dr Gloom 21868]

The Rafa v Poch debate is nitpicking. They’re both top class managers and massive upgrades on the incumbent. But I’d rather Klopp or Pep. And money talks 

[Polarboy 2311]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

The Rafa v Poch debate is nitpicking. They’re both top class managers and massive upgrades on the incumbent. But I’d rather Klopp or Pep. And money talks 

 

Stating your preference for one style of play over the other isn't really nitpicking, and that's basically all I was doing. It should be taken as read that either piss on Bruce, and take very large shits on him as well while they're at it.

[strawb 4194]

45 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

Do you really understand the logic of what you are arguing. 

Not really, your argument is far too difficult for me to understand mate. Carry on.

[Polarboy 2311]

2 minutes ago, strawb said:

Not really, your argument is far too difficult for me to understand mate. Carry on.

 

An actual response to what I said, instead of just being salty, would have been better. In fact just saying nothing would have been more advisable.

[ewerk 30409]

25 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

Stating your preference for one style of play over the other isn't really nitpicking, and that's basically all I was doing. It should be taken as read that either piss on Bruce, and take very large shits on him as well while they're at it.

So what is Rafa’s style of play?

Like any top manager he picks his best side to get a result against the opposing team and most of the time he has met or exceeded expectations.

Pragmatism is a positive, not a negative. When Pep went to Man U away in the League Cup or away to Real Madrid he was hailed as a genius for his pragmatism.

[strawb 4194]

16 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

An actual response to what I said, instead of just being salty, would have been better. In fact just saying nothing would have been more advisable.

I haven’t even read the whole argument you seem to be having with the entire board, I saw a little bit of one of your posts that said Rafa played defensively at Madrid so I posted that they scored nearly 3 goals a game.

 

Have a good weekend mate.

[Tom 14011]

Rafa isn’t defensive per se but he knows how to defend.

His Liverpool teams scored goals for fun.

[Polarboy 2311]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

So what is Rafa’s style of play?

Like any top manager he picks his best side to get a result against the opposing team and most of the time he has met or exceeded expectations.

Pragmatism is a positive, not a negative. When Pep went to Man U away in the League Cup or away to Real Madrid he was hailed as a genius for his pragmatism.

 

He's consistently played with a counter attacking, cautious, safety first approach. And if you like his more pragmatic approach that's fine, whatever floats your boat.

 

12 minutes ago, strawb said:

I haven’t even read the whole argument you seem to be having with the entire board, I saw a little bit of one of your posts that said Rafa played defensively at Madrid so I posted that they scored nearly 3 goals a game.

 

Have a good weekend mate.

 

I wasn't asking if you'd seen the entire discussion. I was referring specifically to what we had previously spoken about obviously. As for Rafa at Real I said he employed the same tactics he almost always does, as in a counter attacking style. I also made the very obvious point that because Real and Barca are so far ahead of almost all of the rest, perhaps even more so when Rafa was at Real, and Rafa literally had some of the best players on the planet, and one of the best players of all time in Ronaldo, he could've pretty much played any style and still scored hatful's against Getafe, Eibar etc. You've so far failed to counter this point. Here's a few articles to back up my point.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/real-madrid/11914123/Rafael-Benitez-under-fire-for-cowardly-style-at-Real-Madrid.html

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/rafa-benitez-on-brink-of-a-revolt-as-five-players-confront-him-over-real-madrids-style-of-play-43094

https://www.the42.ie/5-reasons-rafa-benitez-sacked-real-madrid-2530995-Jan2016/

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

1 hour ago, Polarboy said:

 

Do you really understand the logic of what you are arguing. When you are managing Real, have Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Rodriquez etc, and are playing Eibar, Getafe, Levante etc, then yes even if you are playing a counter attacking style you will score a lot of goals. Indeed you will at times even score three or four against your rivals, but it's still a fundamentally cautious approach, which will pay massive dividends against very weak opposition such as there is in La Liga. 

 

 

No I'm not and you are again misunderstanding what I've written either intentionally or unintentionally. I haven't once said that Benitez couldn't be successful at the club again, or that he hasn't been successful with his style of play in the past. His success isn't deniable. I merely questioned if his way of playing is still relevant at the very top end of things, and stated my preference for attacking football. I don't know the answer to the question of how successful he would be if he had the resources to take on Klopp, Guardiola etc. And what I've been saying repeatedly is that Benitez's style of counter attacking play has never changed. He's not going to suddenly start playing attacking football. So I'm not really sure if you even know what point you are trying to make with regard to cutting ones cloth. Managers generally have a distinct football philosophy, and only change if it really calls for it in particular circumstances and matches. And how many times does it have to be said. Rafa didn't change the way he played at Real regardless of the riches he had round in the playing staff.

 

 

He didn't say he wasn't in charge, he just said he didn't have total control like Pep. I think what he was trying to say was that he had input, but Levy had the final say on comings and goings if it made sense to his bottom line. Lets just say that Sissoko was Levy's idea https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11751098/tottenham-boss-mauricio-pochettino-says-he-doesnt-have-final-say-on-transfers

 

You seem to label pragmatic as defensive, our counter-attacking, though as if they're mutually exclusive. Pragmaticism by definition means that if our best attacking talent is the key to winning a game then that'll be what will be utilised. 

 

If you're saying he's rigidly a counter attacking manager you're denying he's pragmatic and pretty much Sam Allardyce.

 

You're talking shit basically. Benitez walking into Real Madrid and trying to instill some. discipline and competition to 'galacticos' is no bad thing either. The bad thing was that player power tied his hands.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TheGingerQuiff

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

15 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

He's consistently played with a counter attacking, cautious, safety first approach. And if you like his more pragmatic approach that's fine, whatever floats your boat.

 

 

I wasn't asking if you'd seen the entire discussion. I was referring specifically to what we had previously spoken about obviously. As for Rafa at Real I said he employed the same tactics he almost always does, as in a counter attacking style. I also made the very obvious point that because Real and Barca are so far ahead of almost all of the rest, perhaps even more so when Rafa was at Real, and Rafa literally had some of the best players on the planet, and one of the best players of all time in Ronaldo, he could've pretty much played any style and still scored hatful's against Getafe, Eibar etc. You've so far failed to counter this point. Here's a few articles to back up my point.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/real-madrid/11914123/Rafael-Benitez-under-fire-for-cowardly-style-at-Real-Madrid.html

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/rafa-benitez-on-brink-of-a-revolt-as-five-players-confront-him-over-real-madrids-style-of-play-43094

https://www.the42.ie/5-reasons-rafa-benitez-sacked-real-madrid-2530995-Jan2016/

 

Aye, let good players have free reign instead of an identity. They'll beat Eibar then when they draw Munich in the Champions League they'll have no concept of what tactics they're being told to deploy. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Let's not have a manager at all. Our players will be so good that disciplined performances won't be required

[Polarboy 2311]

22 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

You seem to label pragmatic as defensive though as if they're mutually exclusive. Pragmaticism by definition means that if our best attacking talent is the key to winning a game then that'll be what will be utilised. 

 

I mean we could get into a semantic debate over what it means to be pragmatic in football terms, or we could just agree that it's a widely held opinion that Benitez is a cautious, sensible, safety first coach when it comes to his playing style, which was the salient point that was being made. In any case what I meant when I said pragmatic was that it's a sensible approach, as opposed to the almost idealistic approach that Klopp, Pep etc use, which is to overwhelm their opponents. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Polarboy

[Polarboy 2311]

16 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Aye, let good players have free reign instead of an identity. They'll beat Eibar then when they draw Munich in the Champions League they'll have no concept of what tactics they're being told to deploy. 

 

10 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Let's not have a manager at all. Our players will be so good that disciplined performances won't be required

 

What are you on about? Where have I said that that players should be given free reign to do what they want. The point I made about Rafa at Real was clearly a hypothetical used in order to emphasise the difference in class between Real and most of the league.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Polarboy

[Dougle 3322]

Aye, to sum it up: Some of us think Pochettino is somewhat overrated and some, well at least one, think he is a footballing genius of godlike omnipotence.

His teams play football sexier than Pat Butcher’s thong. And Rafa is a bah humbug Scrooge of a miserable pragmatist, sorry I mean a cautious, sensible, safety first coach prone to miserable football.

[Polarboy 2311]

4 minutes ago, Dougle said:

Aye, to sum it up: Some of us think Pochettino is somewhat overrated and some, well at least one, think he is a footballing genius of godlike omnipotence.

 

His teams play football sexier than Pat Butcher’s thong. And Rafa is a bah humbug Scrooge of a miserable pragmatist, sorry I mean a cautious, sensible, safety first coach prone to miserable football.

 

 

I think you might be being a tad biased in your assessment.

[Meenzer 15467]

6 minutes ago, Dougle said:

Aye, to sum it up: Some of us think Pochettino is somewhat overrated and some, well at least one, think he is a footballing genius of godlike omnipotence.

 

His teams play football sexier than Pat Butcher’s thong. And Rafa is a bah humbug Scrooge of a miserable pragmatist, sorry I mean a cautious, sensible, safety first coach prone to miserable football.

 

 

Sounds about right. Now, does anyone have a decent article about the Mackems' disintegration?

 

[Monkeys Fist 42205]

Given the choice between Rafa and Pochettino as our first post-Fat Cunt manager, the fact is we don’t have a choice- as usual. 

That being said, Rafa is a no-brainer for me. 
He already knows the club, players and what’s needed to improve, he is hugely popular with the fan base, and has an exemplary record. 

He’s a known entity as far as NUFC is concerned, and would hit the ground running. 
 

I’m not saying Pochettino is a worse manager or anything, just that I think we’d get a trophy a season or two faster under Rafa than Wor Maurice. 
 

I also think that if you brought him in as manager with a remit to win the club a trophy, he could then move to DOF ( if that’s something he’d be interested in) and bring in a younger manager to work in tandem with him. 
 

There’s admittedly a lot of speculation involve in the above, but if I was in charge of the club, it’d be the route I’d explore first. 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42205]

11 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Sounds about right. Now, does anyone have a decent article about the Mackems' disintegration?

 

 Why certainly! 
 

Spoiler

 

[wykikitoon 19998]

3 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Given the choice between Rafa and Pochettino as our first post-Fat Cunt manager, the fact is we don’t have a choice- as usual. 

That being said, Rafa is a no-brainer for me. 
He already knows the club, players and what’s needed to improve, he is hugely popular with the fan base, and has an exemplary record. 

He’s a known entity as far as NUFC is conecerned, and would hit the ground running. 
 

I’m not saying Pochettino is a worse manager or anything, just that I think we’d get a trophy a season or two faster under Rafa. 
 

I also think that if you brought him in as manager with a remit to win the club a trophy, he could then move to DOF ( if that’s something he’d be interested in) and bring in a younger manager to work in tandem with him. 
 

There’s admittedly a lot of speculation involve in the above, but if I was in charge of the club, it’d be the route I’d explore first. 

 

Absolutely and he could set the perfect foundations for years to come. 

[Monkeys Fist 42205]

Just now, wykikitoon said:

Absolutely and he could set the perfect foundations for years to come. 

That’s what we all hoped he’d be allowed to do in his first time here, and I can’t see any reason why 18 months or whatever would change that. 
 

I’d be going all-out to get him back, with someone like Pochettino as a back up if it didn’t work, not the other way round.