Newcastle United: Club Sold To PCP - Official

[Alex 34954]

8 minutes ago, zico martin said:

 

But the difference of Rafa returning as opposed to other bosses is that he wasnt allowed to do the job first time round so it wont be a case of him 'doing it again'.

 

He'd certainly be my first choice like

I don’t disagree that his hands were tied. And I said I’d be happy enough. It would be a shame if it didn’t work out and spoilt his legacy here though. I think his counter attacking style could certainly be effective enough to win things with the right personnel however. I mean it’s fucking ridiculous that anyone would turn their nose up at either him or Pochettino given where we were a few months ago though. What I would like is someone who, like Benitez - if he’d been allowed, would bring the academy, training facilities and medical treatment etc. up to scratch as well as getting the first XI right 

[zico martin 89]

Yeah exactly this, not just buy a winning squad but built properly for the future. Rafa seems to understand us aswell so it wouldn't just be a good paycheck for him, its unfinished business!

[Polarboy 2311]

3 minutes ago, zico martin said:

Yeah exactly this, not just buy a winning squad but built properly for the future. Rafa seems to understand us aswell so it wouldn't just be a good paycheck for him, its unfinished business!

 

It wouldn't just be a pay-check to Pochettino either. He's wildly ambitious, and passionate about football in general. The pros of taking the job with us is that while we are far behind the top six, it won't take as long to catch up as it would have, given that FFP should be relaxed, player fees and wages should decrease somewhat, and we'll have much more cash than most clubs in normal circumstances, let alone in the aftermath of this pandemic. With that all said, depending on what sort of project is being sold to him, he may be in the position to completely create the club in his footballing image with almost total carte blance. That should be a very attractive prospect for him, and again not just the chance of a big pay-check.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13842]

Pochettino will have the bit between his teeth with regards to shutting some people up as well. He'll definitely be motivated.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

So will Rafa. See how "defensive" and "same style as bruce" he is with a couple of billion pound strikers at his disposal.

[Polarboy 2311]

6 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

So will Rafa. See how "defensive" and "same style as bruce" he is with a couple of billion pound strikers at his disposal.

 

Rafa has never changed his counter attacking style of football, even when he was at Real. In fact that was one of the reasons he lost that job as far as I remember. The players at Real weren't happy with his tactics. The difference is that when he's been at clubs with a lot of money and or great players, once they get to the attacking third the skill of those quality attacking players takes over. The question is can that counter attacking, pragmatic style still win you major honours in the era of Guardiola and Klopp.

 

Edit. I should say that he hasn't fundamentally changed his football philosophy. I'm sure he's made tweaks here and there, and for specific games.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Polarboy

[Tdansmith 3247]

On 4/22/2020 at 22:51, Polarboy said:

Pochettino is a very good manager who's great at developing young players, but if we're going for the best I'd be a bit worried about how his tenure at Spurs ended. I mean maybe it was more a case of him not being given the funds needed to take them to the next level, and it going stale with certain players trying to jump ship. And perhaps he was a victim of his success in terms of getting very close to winning things and not, but I do have a slight doubt about his temperament.

 

2 hours ago, Polarboy said:

 

Fraud? Do you even watch football mate? You don't get to the Champions League final, and consistently qualify for it, if you are a fraud. And as far as I can see the major reason things went stale for him at Spurs, and he didn't quite win a major trophy, was because of Levy's penny pinching. And in the article you linked it points out that Pochettino was being scouted for the Real job as far back as his Espanyol days, and he's currently still seemingly well thought of by the big clubs around Europe. So I think I'll trust my eyes in terms of the football Spurs played, the level he built them up to, and the opinion of world class football professionals, over yourself. No offence

 

Can't tell if you want him or not 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

14 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

Rafa has never changed his counter attacking style of football, even when he was at Real. In fact that was one of the reasons he lost that job as far as I remember. The players at Real weren't happy with his tactics. The difference is that when he's been at clubs with a lot of money and or great players, once they get to the attacking third the skill of those quality attacking players takes over. The question is can that counter attacking, pragmatic style still win you major honours in the era of Guardiola and Klopp.

 

Edit. I should say that he hasn't fundamentally changed his football philosophy. I'm sure he's made tweaks here and there, and for specific games.

 

Oh I don't know. I mean it's not like he's won honours against a whole host of top managers in a number of different leagues throughout an illustrious career, often with a lesser team than his counterparts (hence the need for "pragmatism" which you bizarrely use as a slur). He almost nullified both Pep's sides and Klopp's side at SJP last season, the latter only won because the ref was under instructions to have the title race to go to the wire.

 

So can his, ew, "pragmatism", compete with these managers when you factor in an unparalleled investment in the playing squad.

 

Probably. 

[Polarboy 2311]

16 minutes ago, Tdansmith said:

 

 

Can't tell if you want him or not 

 

Mate you did a fair bit of searching for what is a very tepid criticism/concern in comparison to my recent comments. I almost wrote the same thing about his tenure at Spurs being hampered by Levy's penny pinching in both comments. It even states in that guardian article from earlier that he was told he'd have to do things on a budget when he was given the Spurs job, because of the new stadium build. The comment was also in the context of if we're going for the best, as in Allegri, Favre, Nagelsmann etc. So it was really a case of being hypercritical for the case of comparison to his elite level manager contemporaries.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Polarboy

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Saying you want a "young, hungry" manager is a huge insult to a man who is clearly an obsessive to the game and probably the hardest working manager we've had as well.

[Tdansmith 3247]

2 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

Mate you did a fair bit of searching for what is a very tepid criticism concern in comparison to my recent comments. I almost wrote the same thing about his tenure at Spurs being hampered by Levy's penny pinching in both comments. It even states in that guardian article from earlier that he was told he'd have to do things on a budget when he was given the Spurs job, because of the new stadium build. The comment was also in the context of if we're going for the best, as in Allegri, Favre, Nagelsmann etc. So it was really a case of being hypercritical for the case of comparison to his elite level manager contemporaries.

Mate, it was only a tepid amount of searching tbf  

[Polarboy 2311]

2 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Oh I don't know. I mean it's not like he's won honours against a whole host of top managers in a number of different leagues throughout an illustrious career, often with a lesser team than his counterparts (hence the need for "pragmatism" which you bizarrely use as a slur). He almost nullified both Pep's sides and Klopp's side at SJP last season, the latter only won because the ref was under instructions to have the title race to go to the wire.

 

So can his, ew, "pragmatism", compete with these managers when you factor in an unparalleled investment in the playing squad.

 

Probably. 

 

I'm not using pragmatism as a slur, and I didn't say that it can't win major honours, I just left a question mark beside it. And I left a question mark beside it because football moves on. The way to win a league now, is not the same as it was in the 90's or even early 2000's. I just personally prefer a more front footed football philosophy that includes a bit of possession play. 

[Polarboy 2311]

5 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Saying you want a "young, hungry" manager is a huge insult to a man who is clearly an obsessive to the game and probably the hardest working manager we've had as well.

 

It's not an insult, it's a statement of fact. I'm not doubting Rafa's passion for the game, the man's clearly obsessed, but he is 60. The facts are that he will start to slow down in the next five to ten years, and the Newcastle job is a top to bottom rebuild. I'd just be more confident that Pochettino would be ready, willing and able to tear into the project over the long term. Again I wouldn't be unhappy if Rafa was given the job, or doubt that he'd do an extremely solid job of putting the foundations in place.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

7 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

I'm not using pragmatism as a slur, and I didn't say that it can't win major honours, I just left a question mark beside it. And I left a question mark beside it because football moves on. The way to win a league now, is not the same as it was in the 90's or even early 2000's. I just personally prefer a more front footed football philosophy that includes a bit of possession play. 

 

And, if you have the best attacking players in the league because you're the richest club in the world, a pragmatic decision be taken to play on the front foot. I mean, it's not like Rafa's famous sides have struggled for goals. It's only here when he had the likes of Joselu at his disposal that he, pragmatically, realised that just out scoring the opposition wasn't really a sensible approach. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Oh and one sold Sissoko for £30m, the other bought Sissoko for £30m.

 

End of argument.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TheGingerQuiff

[Polarboy 2311]

 

2 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

And, if you have the best attacking players in the league because you're the richest club in the world, a pragmatic decision be taken to play on the front foot. I mean, it's not like Rafa's famous sides have struggled for goals. It's only here when he had the likes of Joselu at his disposal that he, pragmatically, realised that just out scoring the opposition wasn't really a sensible approach. 

 

As I said he has a style of play and tactics that don't really change regardless of whether he's even at Real. That you have amazing attacking players that will score hatful's against inferior opposition isn't in question. But if we are talking fantasy football here I want us to eventually be one of the top sides in Europe, and to use an attacking style ala Liverpool, Man City, Barca, Real etc. It should also be noted that the top players at Real weren't all that pleased with Rafa's tactics. If we want to sell a project to top players the playing style of the coach will be at least one of the considerations for them.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

2 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

 

As I said he has a style of play and tactics that don't really change regardless of whether he's even at Real. That you have amazing attacking players that will score hatful's against inferior opposition isn't in question. But if we are talking fantasy football here I want us to eventually be one of the top sides in Europe, and to use an attacking style ala Liverpool, Man City, Barca, Real etc. It should also be noted that the top players at Real weren't all that pleased with Rafa's tactics. If we want to sell a project to top players the playing style of the coach will be at least one of the considerations for them.

 

It'd take an immediate unprecedented overhaul for us to have the ammunition/quality to play "attacking" football and go toe-to-toe with the top sides with that style. In the interim at least you need a pragmatist. Benitez, who already knows most of the squad and knows the club inside out, is the obvious and outstanding candidate. He's got a better track record and you know what you're going to get. What a manager who inherited Harry Kane can do when he inherits Joelinton is a crap shoot.

[Dougle 3322]

Might I hoy this in?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36240333

[Polarboy 2311]

3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

It'd take an immediate unprecedented overhaul for us to have the ammunition/quality to play "attacking" football and go toe-to-toe with the top sides with that style. In the interim at least you need a pragmatist. Benitez, who already knows most of the squad and knows the club inside out, is the obvious and outstanding candidate. He's got a better track record and you know what you're going to get. What a manager who inherited Harry Kane can do when he inherits Joelinton is a crap shoot.

 

We're clearly going to be one of the biggest spenders next transfer window, and Pochettino might even be able to make Joelinton into what passes for a footballer. But regardless of whether he does or not, he'll be buying a new striker or two without question, among plenty of other players, if indeed he gets the job. And to build a team, which Pochettino has done twice in the premier league, you have to start from somewhere. I don't see the logic in letting Rafa build a pragmatic side, and then have someone like Pochettino come in and completely change the style of play, and likely want different types of players that compliment that style. And again Pochettino got the Spurs job because of the great job he did at Southampton, and Espanyol before that., neither of who had a Harry Kane. To imply he just skated by at Spurs because he had Kane is nonsense.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Just now, Polarboy said:

 

We're clearly going to be one of the biggest spenders next transfer window, and Pochettino might even be able to make Joelinton into what passes for a footballer. But regardless of whether he does or not, he'll be buying a new striker or two without question, among plenty of other players, if indeed he gets the job. And to build a team, which Pochettino has done twice in the premier league, you have to start from somewhere. I don't see the logic in letting Rafa build a pragmatic side, and then have someone like Pochettino come in and completely change the style of play, and likely want different types of players that compliment that style. And again Pochettino got the Spurs job because of the great job he did at Southampton, and Espanyol before that., neither of who had a Harry Kane. To imply he just skated by at Spurs because he had Kane is nonsense.

 

I think our differences lie in that you don't know what pragmatism is by definition.

[Polarboy 2311]

3 minutes ago, Dougle said:

Might I hoy this in?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36240333

 

One game, yes because that's entirely relevant. For fuck sake.

[Howay 12496]

I’ll take either of them. We’ve currently got Steve fucking Bruce and a team playing some of the most tragic football we’ve watched in our time in the PL. 

[Polarboy 2311]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

I think our differences lie in that you don't know what pragmatism is by definition.

 

Care to expand instead of making an almost entirely pointless comment.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Just now, Polarboy said:

 

Care to expand instead of making an almost entirely pointless comment.

 

Why would he "build a pragmatic side". Pragmatism is about "horses for courses", making the best decisions in relation to the resources available. When those resources are the Saudi PIF, the pragmatic move is to buy the best players around. Do you think Benitez wanted to sit 11 men behind the ball vs City? Do you think he'd play like that with better players? 

[Dougle 3322]

5 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

One game, yes because that's entirely relevant. For fuck sake.

 

Of course it’s fucking relevant, they were playing for second place (above local rivals too), we lost a striker and then went on to score 3 of our goals. ‘Fucks sake’.