Rayvin 5189 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tom said: Stop being so fucking soft man. In fairness, you lot should be well used to my hand wringing by now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30429 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Not feeling guilty about celebrating the success, but whether the success will really feel like it would have if we had done it without Saudi money, and all the moral considerations that come with it. Is the Newcastle owned by Saudi going to be the same Newcastle we all came to love. I mean, is it that club anymore anyway tbf. I've been looking at this as a 'the club is ours again' moment more than anything else and that article brought me back down to earth somewhat. As HMHM says, it'll take a bit off the shine off. I guess the worry is, how big a bit that is. We aren't winning anything without Saudi money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5189 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, ewerk said: We aren't winning anything without Saudi money. Aye, very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3353 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) Remember when Thaksin Shinawatra bought Citeh with what was obviously money embezzeled from Thailand there was a couple of reports alluding to it at the time and then nothing. He actually bought the club with stolen money and when he sold it on the Abu Dhabi group and made a huge profit again no one gave a fuck. Edited April 22, 2020 by sammynb 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5189 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, David Kelly said: I don't think that articles right at all. Firstly while I agree that the actions of the Saudi's in their own county is far from something I approve of, I don't see how it's remotely the fault of anything they might own. People haven't died in Yeman so that we can win anything. They are totally separate things. I'm not burying my head in the sand about things they have done, it's deplorable. But they certainly haven't been done in the cause of Newcastle United. If being bought by the Saudi's leads to us winning things I won't feel any more hollow about it than I would have if it had come from the money of Ashley or John Hall. There's an element of wishing it could come from the fans owning the club and growing organically but that is never going to happen unless all of professional football is completely overhauled. And that certainly isn't going to happen any time soon. For me the best that could come out of this would be that we move forward and win something as a club and that it also highlights the wrongdoings of the owners and puts pressure on them to change. Can see this side too. I guess time will tell for me where I stand on this, gonna have to reflect on it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: In fairness, you lot should be well used to my hand wringing by now Aye I was only joking anyway. Its been a constant discussion topic in my life this week with numerous different people, some who have no affiliation to football but campaigned with me for Labour. Ive come to the conclusion that is so far out of my hands it’s not worth getting upset about. Ashley has already taken the football club I love and rendered it unrecognisable. If this trend is to continue & we are to be a mere simulacrum of what i feel in love with then we may as well win a cup. John Hall, Shepherd, Ashley, PCP, it’s all the same to me now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5189 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, Tom said: Aye I was only joking anyway. Its been a constant discussion topic in my life this week with numerous different people, some who have no affiliation to football but campaigned with me for Labour. Ive come to the conclusion that is so far out of my hands it’s not worth getting upset about. Ashley has already taken the football club I love and rendered it unrecognisable. If this trend is to continue & we are to be a mere simulacrum of what i feel in love with then we may as well win a cup. John Hall, Shepherd, Ashley, PCP, it’s all the same to me now. Fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3353 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Tom said: John Hall, Shepherd, Ashley, PCP, it’s all the same to me now. PCP will do that to you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17176 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) @sammynb 39 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: I'm not too impressed with them and I wouldn't lie if the thought of us winning stuff only because these got on board wouldn't take a bit of the shine off. The trouble is you could say the same for most clubs to differing degrees, from Man City to Chelsea, from Blackburn to Liverpool. The second the game turned professional the gloves were off and a club with a wealthier owner gave that that club a real advantage. It's one of the reasons the old Etonian's have to content themselves literally ruling the country whilst not ruling the football league anymore. Like cups and trophies it always seems there's a time limit on when you won your silver depending on who's telling the story? I think the same goes with rich backers. If it's our turn we'll get it in the neck, more so on account of the human rights issues but we'd get it regardless. It's a tough one but when it comes to it are you going to stop saying you support your club? I stopped going as I couldn't bare paying my money to a parasite who was letting NUFC rot. These would be the opposite, so do I go back? I'm leaning towards yes as I'm fucked if the actions of others is being put on me, personally. I'd be more than happy if this got blocked as long as it was across the board and some real legislation was introduced to let all clubs be ran via their supporters and people paid through the club's to run them. If this doesn't happen then don't come looking for us, we don't run the game nor the country. Great post and pretty much where I am....the kneejerk criticism of the fans we were getting over the weekend seems to have abated but still no analysis of the roles of Staveley, the Reubens or Ashley in this. The media are fundamentally fuckin dishonest on this. Edited April 22, 2020 by PaddockLad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32941 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I just had a look on rtg so now I'm a bit more cheered up. One of them asked if the potential new owner would even be allowed entry into the country? (the photos of him meeting the PM and Downing Street and chatting with the queen in Buckingham palace were obviously fake news). Another saying that the last trophy we won was in the 50s as the 'fairs cup schmairs cup' doesn't count, despite the fact he'd have ripped his bollocks off with a rusty hacksaw if it was Sunderland who could've won it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3353 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: @sammynb All of that's true. But so is the point that if there's any remnant of a sporting institution left after Ashley's tenure then there's a good chance it will very soon disappear under Saudi ownership. I'm on a long term season ticket deal. It makes comparatively very cheap to watch NUFC. If it turns out that I eventually get priced out of my ST at some point how am I supposed to feel about "my" club? I say this in full knowledge that this happened to 1000s of former Leazes & Gallowgate dwellers in the 90s. That's fair and always a possibility. At least Newcastle is far enough away to stop the plastic London fans hoovering up STs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdansmith 3255 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 47 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: I'm not too impressed with them and I wouldn't lie if the thought of us winning stuff only because these got on board wouldn't take a bit of the shine off. The trouble is you could say the same for most clubs to differing degrees, from Man City to Chelsea, from Blackburn to Liverpool. The second the game turned professional the gloves were off and a club with a wealthier owner gave that that club a real advantage. It's one of the reasons the old Etonian's have to content themselves literally ruling the country whilst not ruling the football league anymore. Like cups and trophies it always seems there's a time limit on when you won your silver depending on who's telling the story? I think the same goes with rich backers. If it's our turn we'll get it in the neck, more so on account of the human rights issues but we'd get it regardless. It's a tough one but when it comes to it are you going to stop saying you support your club? I stopped going as I couldn't bare paying my money to a parasite who was letting NUFC rot. These would be the opposite, so do I go back? I'm leaning towards yes as I'm fucked if the actions of others is being put on me, personally. I'd be more than happy if this got blocked as long as it was across the board and some real legislation was introduced to let all clubs be ran via their supporters and people paid through the club's to run them. If this doesn't happen then don't come looking for us, we don't run the game nor the country. A great post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9741 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I am impressed about the club’s standing in world politics with unknown future success seen to be able to overshadow abhorrent politics and crimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32941 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) I'd also add I'm more than getting irritated by people who couldn't normally give a monkey's chuff about us and no real interest spouting we don't like Ashley as he never spent much? Within two years the bloke got a big club who finished in the CL places five years earlier relegated. How the fuck do you manage that? Can you imagine the hell that would've been made if he'd done the same with Arsenal, Man Utd or whoever? After that the second relegation was merely routine to them I suppose? But, aye, he didn't spend much, did he? (The fucking tosspots). Edited April 22, 2020 by Howmanheyman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20025 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3353 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Once the take over happens, if the new owners bring all the staff that Ashley furloughed back on 100% pay what would be the media's and social media's reaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20025 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 They'll just ignore it like it hasn't happened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, sammynb said: Once the take over happens, if the new owners bring all the staff that Ashley furloughed back on 100% pay what would be the media's and social media's reaction? Sportswashing pr stunt obv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Not feeling guilty about celebrating the success, but whether the success will really feel like it would have if we had done it without Saudi money, and all the moral considerations that come with it. Is the Newcastle owned by Saudi going to be the same Newcastle we all came to love. I mean, is it that club anymore anyway tbf. I've been looking at this as a 'the club is ours again' moment more than anything else and that article brought me back down to earth somewhat. As HMHM says, it'll take a bit off the shine off. I guess the worry is, how big a bit that is. To be honest, most of us never grew up with the club being ours anyway (Noelie might be the exception). When I first started going to the match (which was what made me fall in love with football, I wasn't interested before that) Mckeag was in charge (not sure if he actually owned the club) and there was definitely a sense of disconnection then. When Hall bought it you had Douglas and Sheppard taking the piss and there was a disconnection then also. Certainly it's been a lot worse under Ashley but we're fools if we think he took the club away from being ours. As others have already said, that was done when the game went pro and it's just got worse and worse over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10823 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: I'm not too impressed with them and I wouldn't lie if the thought of us winning stuff only because these got on board wouldn't take a bit of the shine off. The trouble is you could say the same for most clubs to differing degrees, from Man City to Chelsea, from Blackburn to Liverpool. The second the game turned professional the gloves were off and a club with a wealthier owner gave that that club a real advantage. It's one of the reasons the old Etonian's have to content themselves literally ruling the country whilst not ruling the football league anymore. Like cups and trophies it always seems there's a time limit on when you won your silver depending on who's telling the story? I think the same goes with rich backers. If it's our turn we'll get it in the neck, more so on account of the human rights issues but we'd get it regardless. It's a tough one but when it comes to it are you going to stop saying you support your club? I stopped going as I couldn't bare paying my money to a parasite who was letting NUFC rot. These would be the opposite, so do I go back? I'm leaning towards yes as I'm fucked if the actions of others is being put on me, personally. I'd be more than happy if this got blocked as long as it was across the board and some real legislation was introduced to let all clubs be ran via their supporters and people paid through the club's to run them. If this doesn't happen then don't come looking for us, we don't run the game nor the country. Aye, "buying the league" is as old as professional football, like you say. Man Utd, Blackburn, Chelcea, Man City, Liverpool did it, even Sunderland were the "Bank of England " club way back when. We'll have hypocrites from other clubs saying we've sold our soul by supporting a club with shady owners as if, a) their owners aren't on the scale of evil, b ) they wouldn't support their team should it be taken over by Ernst stavro Blofeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20025 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4375 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Tom said: John Hall, Shepherd, Ashley, PCP, it’s all the same to me now. To be fair McKeag was a cunt and I'm sure the Seymour s et al were as well. Apart from the German and maybe Spanish models I don't think anyone "owns" football clubs apart from whichever rich men from whatever era it happens to be in. The sense of belonging fans (at least in the past) have regarding clubs is more a tribal identity /community thing. However I think the link has always been a united sense of desire for the club to do well even for "playthings". Ashley's disconnect has been that the fans recognise he lacks that desire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) I understand people would be worried about the Bein letter, but there’s no chance they would actually do something like pull out of their deal with the PL (that would hit them hard financially) nor will they avoid bidding for the rights in future - losing the PL rights would cripple Bein, the PL would know both points. The Bein note is based on allegations, they’ve not proven any connection between BeoutQ and the Saudi Government / PIF. The Saudis would probably get around any worry as well by saying they will be bidding for the Middle Eastern TV rights when they go open to bid is 2022 (iirc), which will make the PL’s eyes glint even more. I think it’s also worth noting that the PL, and English football in general is fearing the fallout of COVID-19, here’s a group coming in that are highly likely to trigger a huge cash injection into the English game, and getting many long chains of transfer deals started, I can’t see the PL turning that down because one of their many TV partners are trying to half bluff that they might walk away from a new tv deal in 2 seasons time. I think we can look forward to a lot of this proxy war type behavior between the gulf states over TV deals etc going forward. Edited April 22, 2020 by Howay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
247 597 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Ashley pockets a 17m deposit regardless of sale... all of a sudden Bein sports is trying to scupper a sale.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42227 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Whilst everyone and their dog are having a dig at us for being pleased, it’s maybe worth noting that the Chairman of BeIn Sports, Nasser Al-Khelaifi, who’s also President of PSG, the same BeIn Sports crying about dirty tricks from the Saudis, isn’t exactly squeaky-clean himself. In October 2017, the Swiss courts opened an investigation against him for suspicion of private corruption in the allocation of television rights for the World Cups 2026 and 2030 for the North Africa and Middle East zone. In March 2019, he is placed under the status of witness assisted by the French courts. On 23 May 2019, he was indicted for active bribery in an investigation into the 2017 and 2019 Doha nominations for the World Championships in Athletics. "These facts do not concern him", pleads his lawyer who believes that Nasser Al-Khelaïfi is innocent. In February 2020, Swiss prosecutors dropped the charge of bribery but indicted Al-Khelaifi for inciting Jérôme Valcke “to commit aggravated criminal mismanagement." So, I believe the correct moral response to BeIn Sports, and their more hirsute employees, would be … ” Get fucked, you massive hypocrites.” 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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