trooper 940 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 09:38, Rayvin said: I'm not remotely concerned tbh, because I firmly believe this won't happen Having said that, what's the harm in a little speculation? Expand On 21/11/2017 at 09:38, Rayvin said: I'm not remotely concerned tbh, because I firmly believe this won't happen Having said that, what's the harm in a little speculation? Expand If Ashley lets this slip through his sausage fingers shirley there should be a monumehtal backlash from the fans towards Ashley. I'd imagine Ashleyout.com are on stand by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 09:41, Howay said: Interesting that you felt it was aimed at you Expand The Fish has me rattled 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 8664 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 09:42, trooper said: If Ashley lets this slip through his sausage fingers shirley there should be a monumehtal backlash from the fans towards Ashley. I'd imagine Ashleyout.com are on stand by. Expand Sternly worded letters being whiteboarded as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 37784 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 09:42, trooper said: I'd imagine Ashleyout.com are on stand by. Expand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) On 21/11/2017 at 09:32, Rayvin said: Um... no... I said it would be a stupid move, same as you. So if I'm 'reacting to it', then you've done the same thing since our position is...the same! The only mitigation on that point is that I consider that the low offer would actually make sense if it was a take it or leave it kind of deal. If it's not, then I would just consider it derisory if I were Ashley. Expand Your position was to believe the "take it or leave it" offer made sense. On 21/11/2017 at 08:34, Rayvin said: If that's true, we're fucked. Although it would make sense given how low the offer is. Expand My position was to dismiss it, because it makes little sense. I offered a more likely scenario, where this rumoured bid is simply the first of a back-and-forth, moving towards a potential sale. And my pants are dry, where yours are sodden. Edited November 21, 2017 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 09:54, The Fish said: Your position was to believe the "take it or leave it" offer made sense. My position was to dismiss it, because it makes little sense. I offered a more likely scenario, where this rumoured bid is simply the first of a back-and-forth, moving towards a potential sale. Nad my pants are dry, where yours are sodden. Expand I still think we've made exactly the same point. All I did otherwise was support a previously stated view of mine (the offer is too low by far) and considered that logically, for me at least, the low offer coupled with a take it or leave it, could make sense. Then you just barrelled into me, arms windmilling and everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:00, Rayvin said: I still think we've made exactly the same point. All I did otherwise was support a previously stated view of mine (the offer is too low by far) and considered that logically, for me at least, the low offer coupled with a take it or leave it, could make sense. Then you just barrelled into me, arms windmilling and everything Expand But an initial low "take it or leave it" offer makes no sense. If you were buying a car and tried to lowball the vendor with a take it or leave it offer, they'd tell you to fuck off, and should you try any future bids, your negotiating power would be banjaxed... if they entertained the bids at all. So I wholly disagree that an initial bid that is low and a take it or leave it offer, makes any kind of sense. How's that for windmilling, you big ol' Nazi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:09, The Fish said: But an initial low "take it or leave it" offer makes no sense. If you were buying a car and tried to lowball the vendor with a take it or leave it offer, they'd tell you to fuck off, and should you try any future bids, your negotiating power would be banjaxed... if they entertained the bids at all. So I wholly disagree that an initial bid that is low and a take it or leave it offer, makes any kind of sense. How's that for windmilling, you big ol' Nazi? Expand The first point is what I said though, it makes no sense. Unless you have no intention of going higher. So my view is that the bid is so low, as to actually not even be particularly useful in a negotiating context. Especially since Ashley already knew that they valued the club around this figure as it was widely reported. If she legitimately doesn't intend to negotiate, then the take it or leave it makes sense. And given that the bid is almost pointlessly low (assuming Ashley behaves in his normal way) it is conceivable that this is as far as they're prepared to go. Unless creating a media stir helps them in some other way, as Gloom was suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) On 21/11/2017 at 10:12, Rayvin said: The first point is what I said though, it makes no sense. Unless you have no intention of going higher. So my view is that the bid is so low, as to actually not even be particularly useful in a negotiating context. Especially since Ashley already knew that they valued the club around this figure as it was widely reported. If she legitimately doesn't intend to negotiate, then the take it or leave it makes sense. And given that the bid is almost pointlessly low (assuming Ashley behaves in his normal way) it is conceivable that this is as far as they're prepared to go. Unless creating a media stir helps them in some other way, as Gloom was suggesting. Expand See this is where we diverge; in what world would someone make their first bid non-negotiable? Edited November 21, 2017 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 15109 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 In another life, you two would definitely be Wolfy’s acid-dropping conspiracy pals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 34216 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:09, The Fish said: But an initial low "take it or leave it" offer makes no sense. If you were buying a car and tried to lowball the vendor with a take it or leave it offer, they'd tell you to fuck off, and should you try any future bids, your negotiating power would be banjaxed... if they entertained the bids at all. So I wholly disagree that an initial bid that is low and a take it or leave it offer, makes any kind of sense. How's that for windmilling, you big ol' Nazi? Expand Your analogies are away to shit this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:22, ewerk said: Your analogies are away to shit this morning. Expand My analogies are always shit, like a an overweight man trying to touch his toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:18, The Fish said: See this is where we diverge; in what world would someone make their first bid non-negotiable? Expand In a world where she wants to buy Liverpool and can demonstrate that 'final offer' means 'final offer' without risking that deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 34216 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 David Davis should sign her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 23754 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 If she wanted to buy Liverpool, why not go for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:25, Rayvin said: In a world where she wants to buy Liverpool and can demonstrate that 'final offer' means 'final offer' without risking that deal? Expand Why would lowballing Mike Ashley strengthen her chances with Liverpool's owners? Newcastle are worth, what, £280m? Liverpool are worth £1.5bn. Ashley wants to sell. FSG don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I dunno, was Gloom's original point. I'm mostly just arguing for the hell of it now. Although the values of the clubs weren't my point. It was more about the mentality and the ability to show strength in deal making. Edited November 21, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:29, Rayvin said: I dunno, was Gloom's original point. I'm mostly just arguing for the hell of it now. Expand Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Here's to another productive morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2475 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Thank you for clearing that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) You've got to remember that journos get their information from 'sources', some of whom only know half of what is going on themselves. It's inevitable that a lot of shite ends up getting published. To me, it makes absolutely zero sense to go through this whole process of looking to buy Newcastle - and they have actually gone quite far through the process - just to, what, show Liverpool they're serious about buying a football club? Why not just make a bid? I'm also extremely doubtful that, if they are as serious as all signs point towards them being, they're just going to leave it if Ashley rejects this bid. It's all about negotiations. This is how they work. Edited November 21, 2017 by rogerbarton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 24271 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:29, Rayvin said: I dunno, was Gloom's original point. I'm mostly just arguing for the hell of it now. Although the values of the clubs weren't my point. It was more about the mentality and the ability to show strength in deal making. Expand No it wasn’t 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2475 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I'm extremely doubtful anyone outside of the bidding process knows what's going on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6449 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:33, rogerbarton said: You've got to remember that journos get their information from 'sources', some of whom only know half of what is going on themselves. It's inevitable that a lot of shite ends up getting published. To me, it makes absolutely zero sense to go through this whole process of looking to buy Newcastle - and they have actually gone quite far through the process - just to, what, show Liverpool they're serious about buying a football club? Why not just make a bid? I'm also extremely doubtful that, if they are as serious as all signs point towards them being, they're just going to leave it if Ashley rejects this bid. It's all about negotiations. This is how they work. Expand Agreed, but Gloom gets these ideas in his head and I dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11413 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 10:36, Rayvin said: Agreed, but Gloom gets these ideas in his head and I dunno... Expand Gloom is a drinker. Proper Madmen style drink cabinet in his wood panelled office. Plus I heard he calls his secretary "kitten". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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