Generic small time football blather thread FOREVER

[Dr Gloom 23597]

This so is obviously going back to court. Man Ciry will win and Masters will be made to look a mug. Again 

[Gemmill 49834]

Our goal for this season has to be to get back into the top 4/5 and make the CL next season. And then try and repeat the trick again. We're gonna have to bust into this closed shop, because it's very clear that the rules are going to be stacked against us for the foreseeable. 

[LondonBlue 1021]

6 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Our goal for this season has to be to get back into the top 4/5 and make the CL next season. And then try and repeat the trick again. We're gonna have to bust into this closed shop, because it's very clear that the rules are going to be stacked against us for the foreseeable. 

 

you need new and creative ways of making money

 

Next up for us is kids tv.  possibly a brilliant idea. 

 

Bands have done it and got burnt into our memories, like the Beatles cartoon and the Monkeys tv show.

 

Why not football clubs?

Pep cartoon would have a big cigar (if thats allowed)

Haaland's would be easy.

Rico Lewis cartoon would be like the hair bear bunch.

 

[Isegrim 10327]

15 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

This so is obviously going back to court. Man Ciry will win and Masters will be made to look a mug. Again 

It’s just about kicking the can down the road as long as possible to delay others catching up

[Dr Gloom 23597]

23 minutes ago, Sonatine said:

Says a lot about the clubs outside of the so called "Top 4 or Top 6" who seem just content to display no ambition other than just staying in the league and pocketing the money 

 

[RobElliott 1793]

8 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

you need new and creative ways of making money

 

Next up for us is kids tv.  possibly a brilliant idea. 

 

Bands have done it and got burnt into our memories, like the Beatles cartoon and the Monkeys tv show.

 

Why not football clubs?

Pep cartoon would have a big cigar (if thats allowed)

Haaland's would be easy.

Rico Lewis cartoon would be like the hair bear bunch.

 

 

I mean, Id watch a mad dog cartoon series

[LondonBlue 1021]

20 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

This so is obviously going back to court. Man Ciry will win and Masters will be made to look a mug. Again 

 

Actually both sides will have to accept the tribunal findings, whenever they come out, and if necessary accept and implement them and then possibly even have another vote.

[Alex 36695]

11 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

you need new and creative ways of making money

 

Next up for us is kids tv.  possibly a brilliant idea. 

 

Bands have done it and got burnt into our memories, like the Beatles cartoon and the Monkeys tv show.

 

Why not football clubs?

Pep cartoon would have a big cigar (if thats allowed)

Haaland's would be easy.

Rico Lewis cartoon would be like the hair bear bunch.

 

The Beatles would’ve been nothing without that series

[ewerk 33151]

20 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

you need new and creative ways of making money

 

Next up for us is kids tv.  possibly a brilliant idea. 

 

Bands have done it and got burnt into our memories, like the Beatles cartoon and the Monkeys tv show.

 

Why not football clubs?

Pep cartoon would have a big cigar (if thats allowed)

Haaland's would be easy.

Rico Lewis cartoon would be like the hair bear bunch.

 

I imagine Abu Dhabi TV would pay at least a billion for the rights to that.  

[RobinRobin 12473]

 

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by RobinRobin

[ewerk 33151]

 

In the last 23 years Leicester, Villa and us are the only English clubs outside of the 'big 6' to have played CL football. Thank god for that competitive balance and fairness, eh?

[Howmanheyman 36528]

 

'I see the usual five clubs and eleven of their lackeys have voted to keep a perpetual top 6, Father?'

Edited November 22, 2024 by Howmanheyman

[Sonatine 11917]

14 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

 

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

9 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

In the last 23 years Leicester, Villa and us are the only English clubs outside of the 'big 6' to have played CL football. Thank god for that competitive balance and fairness, eh?

 

shareholder loans are the ultimate APT transaction. never quite understood why our owners don't loan us £10b interest free given that's what everyone else does.

 

[Gemmill 49834]

If you don't already have loans that they would be replacing (at zero interest), there's no benefit to you because your spending is still curtailed by all the other rules around allowable losses, etc. 

 

The benefit comes from the avoidance of material interest charges. These clubs should have a nominal 6% (or higher!) applied to their loans and that should factor into their allowable loss calculation. Currently it doesn't factor in at all. 

[Dazzler 11720]

39 minutes ago, RobElliott said:

 

I mean, Id watch a mad dog cartoon series

We already have it:

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

12 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

If you don't already have loans that they would be replacing (at zero interest), there's no benefit to you because your spending is still curtailed by all the other rules around allowable losses, etc. 

 

The benefit comes from the avoidance of material interest charges. These clubs should have a nominal 6% (or higher!) applied to their loans and that should factor into their allowable loss calculation. Currently it doesn't factor in at all. 

 

so if no future loans can be at 0% and must be at an agreed rate then thats a win, just not as big a win as we'd have liked.

 

[Gemmill 49834]

1 minute ago, LondonBlue said:

 

so if no future loans can be at 0% and must be at an agreed rate then thats a win, just not as big a win as we'd have liked.

 

 

Is that one of the changes? I've been struggling to find a decent article that actually describes the changes that have gone through. 

 

If so, yeah that's better, but all they have to do is not make any further loans. Their existing loans, some of which are significant will continue to just not be factored into calculations. 

[LondonBlue 1021]

response from @slbsn  

 

[Dazzler 11720]

1 minute ago, LondonBlue said:

 

so if no future loans can be at 0% and must be at an agreed rate then thats a win, just not as big a win as we'd have liked.

 

I don't think it is, because effectively all of them have had the benefit of those loans already - either the loans replaced external debt saving them X% in interest charges or they used those 0% loans to fund infrastructure improvements. Their PSR calcs were improved by those loans in many cases, which by their very existence makes them unfair.

 

If the point of the tribunal is that it was illegal to exclude the loans, I don't think amending the rules to only include future shareholder loans will pass the sniff test, personally. I still think there is scope that the interest charges could be back dated which fucks quite a few of the clubs that have them.

[LondonBlue 1021]

2 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

I don't think it is, because effectively all of them have had the benefit of those loans already - either the loans replaced external debt saving them X% in interest charges or they used those 0% loans to fund infrastructure improvements. Their PSR calcs were improved by those loans in many cases, which by their very existence makes them unfair.

 

If the point of the tribunal is that it was illegal to exclude the loans, I don't think amending the rules to only include future shareholder loans will pass the sniff test, personally. I still think there is scope that the interest charges could be back dated which fucks quite a few of the clubs that have them.

 

 

the historic shareholder loans stuff feels way to complex for a satisfactory resolution all round.  and i agree it was unfair.

 

but pointing the brakes on this happening again seems like a win to me.

 

I bow down to Stefan's knowledge in all this, as posted above. He might not be 100% correct but he'll be a damn sight closer than most of us.

 

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

the full wording - https://www.premierleague.com/news/4172030

 

At a Premier League Shareholders’ meeting today, clubs approved changes to the League’s Associated Party Transaction (APT) rules

At a Premier League Shareholders’ meeting today, clubs approved changes to the League’s Associated Party Transaction (APT) rules. 

The amendments to the rules address the findings of an Arbitration Tribunal following a legal challenge by Manchester City to the APT system earlier this year.    

The Premier League has conducted a detailed consultation with clubs - informed by multiple opinions from expert, independent Leading Counsel - to draft rule changes that address amendments required to the system.  

This relates to integrating the assessment of Shareholder loans, the removal of some of the amendments made to APT rules earlier this year, and changes to the process by which relevant information from the League’s "databank" is shared with a club’s advisors.  

The purpose of the APT rules is to ensure clubs are not able to benefit from commercial deals or reductions in costs that are not at Fair Market Value (FMV) by virtue of relationships with Associated Parties. These rules were introduced to provide a robust mechanism to safeguard the financial stability, integrity and competitive balance of the League.   

 

Shareholder Loans 
- The new rules seek to ensure that there is appropriate parity between the treatment of shareholder loans and other APTs going forward, with transitional rules clarifying the treatment of existing shareholder loans within that framework. 
- Shareholder loans entered into after 22 November 2024 will be required to be submitted as an APT and subject to an FMV assessment. If the Premier League Board determines the loan to evidently not be at FMV, the club in question shall be required to terminate or vary the loan to reflect FMV and pay any identified shortfall in interest.
- Any Shareholder loan that was entered into before 22 November 2024 and which is replaced with other forms of financing (e.g. by way of conversion to equity or repayment) within 50 days (i.e. by 11 January 2025) will not be required to be submitted as an APT or assessed for FMV. 
- Any Shareholder loan that was entered into after 14 December 2021 but before 22 November 2024 and remaining in effect on 11 January 2025 must be submitted as an APT. If the Premier League Board determines the loan is evidently not at FMV,  the club is permitted to retain the Shareholder loan on its existing terms, though adjustments must be made to its Annual Accounts for 2024/25 onwards as if, from 22 November 2024, the loan was at FMV.
- Any Shareholder loan that was entered into prior to 14 December 2021 and remaining in effect on 11 January 2025 must be submitted as an APT and be subject to an FMV Assessment upon any drawdown taking place after the 22 November 2024. If the Premier League Board determines the loan is evidently not at FMV,  the club is permitted to retain the Shareholder loan on its existing terms, though adjustments must be made to its Annual Accounts for 2024/25 onwards as if any drawdowns made after 22 November 2024 were at FMV.

[wykikitoon 22774]

16 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

response from @slbsn  

 

 

Can someone put this into mong language for me?

[LondonBlue 1021]

2 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

 

Can someone put this into mong language for me?

 

it means you can clock off early and go to the pub

 

 

i think

 

[wykikitoon 22774]

9 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

it means you can clock off early and go to the pub

 

 

i think