Generic small time football blather thread FOREVER

[Toonpack 11328]

57 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i like the idea that it's automated, so it least it removes any bias to favour the team with the right badge 

depends who’s writing the code:

 

**if_shirt=red**

[Gemmill 49728]

 

New rules are bad news for us and fantastic news for those already at the top. 

 

[aimaad22 4659]

Why are the these clubs agreeing to them then? In the hopes they'll also be able to push up revenue?

 

Haven't really read the details yet.

[wykikitoon 22731]

😂

 

 

[Andrew 5136]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

New rules are bad news for us and fantastic news for those already at the top. 

 

 

The vote in for these rules was unanimous, so they obviously see some gain compared to the current rules at least.

[RobElliott 1791]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

 

The vote in for these rules was unanimous, so they obviously see some gain compared to the current rules at least.

 

Suppose you could compare it to the dilemma a mackem feels when he has to decide between shagging his ma or his sister after coming home from watching the lads.

 

Well, except for the fact in our case, neither PSR or this new shite is enjoyable...

[Ayatollah Hermione 14653]

8 hours ago, Andrew said:

 

The vote in for these rules was unanimous, so they obviously see some gain compared to the current rules at least.

Maybe they can see a relaxing of the sponsorship rules on the horizon 

[Andrew 5136]

Aye, or theres been some indication that the fines for overspending are "worth it" and will allow us to grow. 

[Kid Dynamite 7607]

Takes the piss that Man City's charges still haven't had a points deduction. 

 

Nowt to do with the fact they're currently involved in a 3 way title race mind...

[ewerk 33109]

27 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Takes the piss that Man City's charges still haven't had a points deduction. 

 

Nowt to do with the fact they're currently involved in a 3 way title race mind...

 

Man City's charges are much more complicated than those against Everton and Forest.

[ewerk 33109]

2 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Maybe they can see a relaxing of the sponsorship rules on the horizon 

 

It still seems odd that we haven't exploited this more. Everton had Moshiri sponsoring the training ground for £20m a year and apparently that was just fine yet we don't seem to have done anything similar.

[Dazzler 11685]

10 hours ago, Andrew said:

 

The vote in for these rules was unanimous, so they obviously see some gain compared to the current rules at least.

I think the other proposal was to fall in line with UEFA which is capped at 70% so by comparison this looks much better.

[Dazzler 11685]

2 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Maybe they can see a relaxing of the sponsorship rules on the horizon 

Hasn't this already kind of happened? Didn't they already vote against stricter related party rules not that long ago or have I completely imagined it (which is very possible).

[Andrew 5136]

39 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

It still seems odd that we haven't exploited this more. Everton had Moshiri sponsoring the training ground for £20m a year and apparently that was just fine yet we don't seem to have done anything similar.

I think we're playing nice at the moment and perhaps biding our time so that we dont "lock ourselves in" to a deal that we could feasibly have had more money for long term

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

3 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Takes the piss that Man City's charges still haven't had a points deduction. 

 

Nowt to do with the fact they're currently involved in a 3 way title race mind...

 

I'm City and the reason it's taking so long is due to the seriousness of the allegations.  They're still investigating us, trying to find some evidence.  Strong evidence as the burden of proof will be quite high given the stakes.

 

If we are found guilty we'll get hammered the like no-one has ever seen.

 

If we're innocent everyone will apologize and lay flowers at our feet. You'll even be honour bound to doff your cap to me in the street.

 

The original charges came at a terrible time for us, out of form and 5 points behind Arsenal. Annoyingly for the red cartel, it motivated us to win the treble.

 

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

 

I think these new rules make the boardroom almost more important than the pitch. Which feels crazy.

 

City have fantastic revenues thanks to the business acumen of our current owners, nothing like our old toilet paper magnate Peter Swales. That means we can spend more, perpetuating the cycle. Not fair i know.

 

I have no doubt that you'll get good sponsorship, etc, as everything looks good about Newcastle, but it'll take time.

 

The new rules still favors the established clubs. Fortunately we've clawed our way into that group just in time.

 

The red cartel and their pet (Spurs) are stilling trying to boardroom their way to the top.

 

 

 

[Gemmill 49728]

2 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

City have fantastic revenues thanks to the business acumen of our current owners

 

 

 come on. I've no doubt these people are good at business, but you've got some pretty fucking lucrative related party shit going on too. Stuff that the new rules prevent us and anyone else from doing. 

 

[Dazzler 11685]

9 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 come on. I've no doubt these people are good at business, but you've got some pretty fucking lucrative related party shit going on too. Stuff that the new rules prevent us and anyone else from doing. 

 

 

tbf is that not the shit there's a fraud investigation going on over?

[LondonBlue 1021]

9 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 come on. I've no doubt these people are good at business, but you've got some pretty fucking lucrative related party shit going on too. Stuff that the new rules prevent us and anyone else from doing. 

 

 

 

 

City always publish clear reports every year and it's an easy scan - see pages 67 and 68 for revenue https://www.mancity.com/annualreport2023/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/manchester-city_annual-report_2022-23.pdf

 

do you not think that an Abu Dhabi company would see it as an honour to be associated with Abu Dhabi royalty? that it would be strategic even? Etihad Airways has been growing massively in recent years thanks in part to exposure via us, last year it clocked 35% growth.

 

You and i both know that related party is just a way for the red cartel to reign in your spending. and it's unfair.

 

 

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

23 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

tbf is that not the shit there's a fraud investigation going on over?

 

 

Yes. thats the first set of breaches below.

 

I apologize for this but details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:

 

1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72 and C.75 (from 10 September 2009, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.79 and C.80);
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules B.15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.

 

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
(3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
(4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.

 

3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.

 

4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.

 

5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16.

 

 

1 is sponsorship, so presumably Etihad & Etisalat
2 is Mancini & Fordham image rights
3 & 4 aren't about failing FFP necessarily but not submitting accurate accounts for both the PL & UEFA. Those obviously depend on 1 & 2 but the latter is unlikely to involve material amounts.

 

Most think that if the PL fail to prove 1 and 2, then 3 and 4 will automatically fail

 

SIX clubs (MUFC was one) but not us have been fined by HMRC for tax evasion via image rights. We had a dialogue with HMRC and chose to ditch Fordham on HMRC advice, but didn't break the rules.

 

Despite it taking the PL several years to put the allegations together, Man City had to correct the initially published list of charges as the PL and got some charges wrong.

 

Again sorry for that

 

[Dazzler 11685]

3 minutes ago, LondonBlue said:

 

 

Yes. thats the first set of breaches below.

 

I apologize for this but details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:

 

1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72 and C.75 (from 10 September 2009, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.79 and C.80);
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules B.15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.

 

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
(3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
(4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.

 

3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.

 

4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.

 

5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16.

 

 

1 is sponsorship, so presumably Etihad & Etisalat
2 is Mancini & Fordham image rights
3 & 4 aren't about failing FFP necessarily but not submitting accurate accounts for both the PL & UEFA. Those obviously depend on 1 & 2 but the latter is unlikely to involve material amounts.

 

Most think that if the PL fail to prove 1 and 2, then 3 and 4 will automatically fail

 

SIX clubs (MUFC was one) but not us have been fined by HMRC for tax evasion via image rights. We had a dialogue with HMRC and chose to ditch Fordham on HMRC advice, but didn't break the rules.

 

Despite it taking the PL several years to put the allegations together, Man City had to correct the initially published list of charges as the PL and got some charges wrong.

 

Again sorry for that

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

33 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

 

don't blame you. 

 

it's all consuming with many City fans. I think the depression, mental breakdown and suicide rates must be at an all time high in Manchester (because football is obviously everything)

 

 

[Dazzler 11685]

1 minute ago, LondonBlue said:

 

don't blame you. 

 

it's all consuming with many City fans. I think the depression, mental breakdown and suicide rates must be at an all time high in Manchester (because football is obviously everything)

 

 

Surely, you're all just looking forward to winning the Vanarama National League North title with a record win % of 100%, stealing the Johnston Paint Trophy, and probably still winning the FA Cup - despite the inevitable ban from European competitions?

[LondonBlue 1021]

1 hour ago, Dazzler said:

tbf is that not the shit there's a fraud investigation going on over?

 

ooh no, there is no "fraud" investigation.

 

they avoid the word fraud as that would enable city to take it out of the hands of the PL kangaroo court and into the law courts.

 

[LondonBlue 1021]

Just now, Dazzler said:

Surely, you're all just looking forward to winning the Vanarama National League North title with a record win % of 100%, stealing the Johnston Paint Trophy, and probably still winning the FA Cup - despite the inevitable ban from European competitions?

 

actually i'm looking forward to seeing the red top media meltdown and associated boiling piss when we're cleared and awarded liVARpools 1 PL title as compensation