Generic small time football blather thread FOREVER

[Dr Gloom 21801]

On 16/01/2021 at 15:38, Rayvin said:

Bit of a debate raging in the Guardian comment sections atm - was Rooney a better player than Shearer? Debate is going on along club lines with the only balanced opinions being from outsiders, but in general the consensus is that Rooney was the better player 'all round' but Shearer the better goalscorer.

 

I remember Shearer being decent in his defensive work towards the end though and I can remember Rooney being completely useless and carried through games at times.

 

Obviously this has all kicked off because Rooney has just retired.

i think that's a fair assessment. rooney was technically more gifted and capable of scoring some outrageous goals but shearer beats him as an unrelenting goal machine. 

[Dr Gloom 21801]

On 16/01/2021 at 15:51, Kid Dynamite said:

I don't get all the pundits saying we are safe from relegation. We are currently 3 points off 17th and are picking up fewer points than the teams below us 

there's usually one team that sinks like a stone and gets caught up in it 

[ewerk 30221]

25 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i think that's a fair assessment. rooney was technically more gifted and capable of scoring some outrageous goals but shearer beats him as an unrelenting goal machine. 

Aye, at 33 Shearer was still averaging better than a goal every two matches and was the second highest PL goal scorer that season. At 33 Rooney was was fucking about in the MLS and getting arrested for public intoxication. 

[The Fish 10685]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

Hasn't there been an outbreak of internecine warfare between all these attention seeking podcast types (Not our Dave though, @The Fish get yourself involved son, good for the numbers  )  and the helmet who’s unilaterally taking the premier league to court?  

We're not very good at promoting the pod. One is an actor with a big following and the other is a fairly successful comedy writer, so theoretically, if we wanted to they could push it. None of us can be arsed though, it would feel too much like 'work' when in reality we're just doing it for our own enjoyment.

 

e.g.  On Monday I got a text asking if any of us wanted to talk to the Sun about going 12pts clear at the top.  Because of asleep-deprived haze I thought it was a text from the Paul that does the podcast so replied "For that soul crushing event? No. For that rag? Also No." 

 

Didn't realise it was actually from Paul who works for the company that we put it out through...  I'm not very good at this.

[The Fish 10685]

1 hour ago, Gman said:

 

I got involved in this on the graud, a few said about Rooney that it was funny how quick people forget how good he was. My response to it was: 

 

"Funny that it's mentioned how quickly people forget when it comes to remembering talent, to say Rooney was better than Shearer "by a fair way" is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I don't care if as a Newcastle fan I sound biased, Shearer was unreal at times, men against boys stuff."

 

I mean, some people were suggesting it was an absolute not contest with Rooney far ahead of Shearer. 

There's an age thing at work here, I think. 

 

Also, an inability to value the skill, ability and footballing intelligence it takes to be the League's top goal scorer. I've genuinely heard someone denigrate Shearer by saying "Well, he just scores goals". As if that's the easiest thing in football, instead of the hardest.

[ewerk 30221]

He's also 16th on the all time list for assists. Plus most of his time he wasn't playing for a team challenging for the title.

[The Fish 10685]

And he had, what, 2 career threatening injuries? 

 

260/441, if he hadn't missed 1/2 seasons in 97/98 and 00/01 he could have added another 20+ goals to that tally. 

 

Batistuta said this; 

"I know at first hand how fierce the gladiatorial battles are between a striker and defenders. So, to maintain your performance as a top class goalscorer over a long period of time takes phenomenal dedication, self belief and enormous willpower. If you then throw in a number of serious injuries...how many? Three? And for the man to still be producing at the highest level is really an amazing feat. After a match against Juventus I met Alex Del Piero who like myself could only speak in the most glowing of terms about Shearer. He'd terrorised the Juve defenders when the clubs met in Newcastle. They found him one of the most difficult opponents they had ever faced. The coach Marcello Lippi had been purring about Shearer's performance. So much so that his strikers Alex, David (Trezeguet) and Marcelo (Salas) were ordered to take home videos and study Shearer's display."

— Gabriel Batistuta on his admiration of Shearer, February 2003.[55]

[Gman 29]

22 minutes ago, The Fish said:

There's an age thing at work here, I think. 

 

Also, an inability to value the skill, ability and footballing intelligence it takes to be the League's top goal scorer. I've genuinely heard someone denigrate Shearer by saying "Well, he just scores goals". As if that's the easiest thing in football, instead of the hardest.

 

Very true! 

I mean, the bloke could use his head, score insane free-kicks, play with his back to goal, move between the lines, do pretty much anything with a ball... But no, he just scored goals. 

I truly don't think there was a striker with better movement in the Premier League era, although maybe I'm wearing my Toon spectacles. 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

4 minutes ago, The Fish said:

And he had, what, 2 career threatening injuries? 

 

260/441, if he hadn't missed 1/2 seasons in 97/98 and 00/01 he could have added another 20+ goals to that tally. 

 

Batistuta said this; 

"I know at first hand how fierce the gladiatorial battles are between a striker and defenders. So, to maintain your performance as a top class goalscorer over a long period of time takes phenomenal dedication, self belief and enormous willpower. If you then throw in a number of serious injuries...how many? Three? And for the man to still be producing at the highest level is really an amazing feat. After a match against Juventus I met Alex Del Piero who like myself could only speak in the most glowing of terms about Shearer. He'd terrorised the Juve defenders when the clubs met in Newcastle. They found him one of the most difficult opponents they had ever faced. The coach Marcello Lippi had been purring about Shearer's performance. So much so that his strikers Alex, David (Trezeguet) and Marcelo (Salas) were ordered to take home videos and study Shearer's display."

— Gabriel Batistuta on his admiration of Shearer, February 2003.[55]

I am too tired, when I read "Batistuta said this" I immediately thought "what does a wrestler turned actor know about football?"

[Alex 34786]

No way was Rooney more technically gifted 

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

Shearer.First game 26th March 1988

Shearer Last game   17th April 2006

18 seasons ( he only played 5 games in his first season )

734 app 379 goals in his career.

Shearer.Averaged 21 goals a season over 18 seasons.

Not bad 

[Dr Gloom 21801]

46 minutes ago, Alex said:

No way was Rooney more technically gifted 

depends on how you define technically gifted, i suppose. shearer was the best crosser of the ball for a lot of his time at the club, and was the better finisher, but rooney was the better passer and dribbler. 

 

 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42004]

“ He’s our best defender” was a very commonly stated phrase when Shearer was playing for us. 
Not saying he was Ronaldo, but he was so much more than “just” a goal scorer. 

[Alex 34786]

Better dribbler although that was soon coached out of his game. Shearer could do just about everything else better or as well before the Everton injury. Immaculate first touch, great shooting in open play from set pieces, better header of the ball. In terms of his technique he’s underrated. That’s not a pop at Rooney. Actually take the two at their best and they’d have been an unbelievable partnership. I always felt Rooney was / should’ve always been a no 10

[Alex 34786]

That friendly against Argentina where Rooney played as a second striker / in the hole. Riquelme played in the same position for them. Riquelme was easier on the eye but Rooney was better doing everything quickly with the minimum of fuss. Not like later in his career when he slowed play down too much and wanted to spray the ball 50 yards. Reminded me of a serie a game I saw years ago. Ortega played as Parma’s no 10 and Boban played there for Milan. Every time Ortega got the ball he had about 5 touches and tried to beat a man before releasing the ball. Boban did everything one or two touch and was superbly effective by comparison. Milan won 

[Alex 34786]

17 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

“ He’s our best defender” was a very commonly stated phrase when Shearer was playing for us. 
Not saying he was Ronaldo, but he was so much more than “just” a goal scorer. 

He was fast before his injuries caught up with him. Not lightning quick but if he got the wrong side of the defender, they were fucked. 

[The Fish 10685]

34 minutes ago, Alex said:

Better dribbler although that was soon coached out of his game. Shearer could do just about everything else better or as well before the Everton injury. Immaculate first touch, great shooting in open play from set pieces, better header of the ball. In terms of his technique he’s underrated. That’s not a pop at Rooney. Actually take the two at their best and they’d have been an unbelievable partnership. I always felt Rooney was / should’ve always been a no 10

Even then Rooney's ability to get past a man wasn't like Ben Arfa or Messi. It was a quick movement then a burst of acceleration, coupled with good strength and low centre of balance. Like you reference in the comparison between him and Riquelme, he would choose the option that was more efficient. 

 

Agree that Rooney and Shearer would have worked well together, even if that meant Rooney would score fewer goals.

[PaddockLad 17067]

If Harry Kane's hamstrings stand up to it he could beat Shearer's total...think it gets missed sometimes how good that weird sounding cockney twat is...

 

https://www.football365.com/news/portrait-of-an-icon-alan-shearer

[Meenzer 15371]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

He was fast before his injuries caught up with him. Not lightning quick but if he got the wrong side of the defender, they were fucked. 

 

Aye, you really notice it in some of the Southampton/Blackburn clips you see in particular. Not that he was a slouch for us, but christ, if we'd been able to get him even one year earlier... 🙈

[Gman 29]

Ciaran Clark has signed a new two year deal. I mean, cool I guess.

[Dr Gloom 21801]

Like a new signing. 

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

5 hours ago, Gman said:

Ciaran Clark has signed a new two year deal. I mean, cool I guess.

He’s our best natural defender with Dummitt a close second.

[RobinRobin 11113]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Like a new signing. 

Given his age, this is completely against previous club policy, and if you think that he would have got a new contract if Rafa was still there, you're dreaming.

Not that I have anything against Clark as a player, as he has been playing pretty well in a shite team, but this is worrying because Penfold is clearly still fully backing the Cabbage, when he should be looking for a replacement.  

[Alex 34786]

He only looks like the best of the bunch because he’s an old-fashioned centre-half in a struggling, disorganised defence tbh

[Gman 29]

I like Clark, he's the kind of "get stuck in" type defender you need near the bottom, but I do get the feeling that he's the sort of player that if he stays in our first XI we'll always be limited to the bottom 6 clubs, a general mentality and ability combination. I say this as if there's a grand plan for us to push up the league, but still!