Dr Gloom 21912 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 all players have the potential to surprise and to completely dismiss the signing before he's kicked a ball would be silly. but there's almost certainly a reason why he's valued at £5m and couldn't get a game for stoke. it's obvioulsy a massive gamble if this is our only striker we sign this summer. i'll view it more positively if he's been signed to add depth by replacing murphy and we go on to sign a forward with top flight experience and a good goals record to compete with gayle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 High fees on a potential top striker does not guarantee anything more than a smaller fee on potential. It's basically down to the club any player settles at and the way they play for the player. Look at Torres for Liverpool. Expensive at the time but prolific and worth the money. Sold to Chelsea for 50 million and flopped because they didn't play to his strengths and/or he wasn't suited. I'm nit picking in a way because I do know that quality players who command higher fees do tend to produce overall but there's a hell of a lot of players that are potential high transfer quality who just don't show it until they've basically had a little club change here and there. Ultimately some clubs manage to get the spoils of that player, who happens to fit right in. Sissoko for us is a classic at the start and a Tottenham downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: all players have the potential to surprise and to completely dismiss the signing before he's kicked a ball would be silly. but there's almost certainly a reason why he's valued at £5m and couldn't get a game for stoke. it's obvioulsy a massive gamble if this is our only striker we sign this summer. i'll view it more positively if he's been signed to add depth by replacing murphy and we go on to sign a forward with top flight experience and a good goals record to compete with gayle. It could be that he's dogshit, but it could be that his style didn't fit, his face didn't fit or there were personality clashes in the dressing room. Nothing to do with his ability or lack thereof. I did see a rumour on twitter (I know I know) that he was banging the daughter or sister or wife of someone at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Any ideas how many players we've got surplus now it must be about 8/9 at this rate we'll be paying a team of IX to train with the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17239 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, trooper said: Maybe he's making a point to Ashley "this is the best i can get with the money provided" Murphy £10 million LeJune £9 million Atsu £6.5 million Joselu £5 million Manquillo £4.5 million Merino Loan deal Its not making a point is it? This is what we're getting with the budget Rafas been provided with. There's no dressing it up positively or negatively. This is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1244 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Fish said: It could be that he's dogshit, but it could be that his style didn't fit, his face didn't fit or there were personality clashes in the dressing room. Nothing to do with his ability or lack thereof. I did see a rumour on twitter (I know I know) that he was banging the daughter or sister or wife of someone at the club. Stoke paid a little over £5m two years ago and since then he struggled his first season and then went and a not massively successful loan back in Spain. Whether or not he's been banging someone he shouldn't, the price we're paying is pretty fair given his lack of success. Even with the ridiculous prices currently going around. We'd do very well to get back anything like what we paid for Riviere (who tbf has done much less in three years than Joselu has in two). It comes back to what we've done in general this window rather than the specifics of this deal. I think there was hope after the last two summers that we were now moving away from the days of Carr looking for bargains in France and coming back with Amalfitano, Riviere and Gouffran. We spend good money on Thauvin, Wijnaldum, Mitrovic, Ritchie and Gayle. This summer we've not even matched what we spend on any of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, David Kelly said: Stoke paid a little over £5m two years ago and since then he struggled his first season and then went and a not massively successful loan back in Spain. Whether or not he's been banging someone he shouldn't, the price we're paying is pretty fair given his lack of success. Even with the ridiculous prices currently going around. We'd do very well to get back anything like what we paid for Riviere (who tbf has done much less in three years than Joselu has in two). It comes back to what we've done in general this window rather than the specifics of this deal. I think there was hope after the last two summers that we were now moving away from the days of Carr looking for bargains in France and coming back with Amalfitano, Riviere and Gouffran. We spend good money on Thauvin, Wijnaldum, Mitrovic, Ritchie and Gayle. This summer we've not even matched what we spend on any of those players. In my honest opinion, judging by what I've seen pre-season and against Tottenham with some. I think we've brought in some real quality players that far outweigh their price tags as it stands. They hold massive potential to do well for us. Lejeune is real quality. Merino looks quality. Manquillo has the potential to make a name for himself. Murphy has excellent potential to succeed, as well as being a Newcastle fan. Atsu we've already seen is way beyond his price tag. That group added to what we already have in quality, plus later additions to show what they're about, as in, Joselu and maybe the odd buy and loan before a closed window of maybe, Kenedy etc. I'd say we've done pretty well considering the outlay. All it's down to is how hungry and physically/mentally tough they all are over a seasonal course. Most buying clubs are on that dangling string, so let's just see what we can pull out of the bag. Fingers crossed we can overachieve as a bonus but comfortably avoid playing around the drop zone as a real expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1244 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, wolfy said: In my honest opinion, judging by what I've seen pre-season and against Tottenham with some. I think we've brought in some real quality players that far outweigh their price tags as it stands. They hold massive potential to do well for us. Lejeune is real quality. Merino looks quality. Manquillo has the potential to make a name for himself. Murphy has excellent potential to succeed, as well as being a Newcastle fan. Atsu we've already seen is way beyond his price tag. That group added to what we already have in quality, plus later additions to show what they're about, as in, Joselu and maybe the odd buy and loan before a closed window of maybe, Kenedy etc. I'd say we've done pretty well considering the outlay. All it's down to is how hungry and physically/mentally tough they all are over a seasonal course. Most buying clubs are on that dangling string, so let's just see what we can pull out of the bag. Fingers crossed we can overachieve as a bonus but comfortably avoid playing around the drop zone as a real expectation. I think you're over estimating the impact of the players so far. The new signings combined have managed about a game and a half of premier league football so far. So judging them is foolish so soon IMO. Yes they all looked decent but let's wait until they've managed a few games before saying how good they are. But again I stress this isn't the point. The concern is that when other clubs (admittedly most of them have the TV money from last season that we didn't get) are spending good money we're back to hunting for bargains who seem to be more for the squad than the first team (shown by the fact we only started two new players on Sunday and it would have been just one had Yedlin been fit). We've shown before that we can find the odd gem for next to nowt, but ultimately it led to relegation. I thought we would have learned from that but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: Meanwhile, Everton agree £45m deal for sigurdsson, and West Ham close in on £40m Carvalho. Stupid money for both players. Especially Carvalho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, David Kelly said: I think you're over estimating the impact of the players so far. The new signings combined have managed about a game and a half of premier league football so far. So judging them is foolish so soon IMO. Yes they all looked decent but let's wait until they've managed a few games before saying how good they are. But again I stress this isn't the point. The concern is that when other clubs (admittedly most of them have the TV money from last season that we didn't get) are spending good money we're back to hunting for bargains who seem to be more for the squad than the first team (shown by the fact we only started two new players on Sunday and it would have been just one had Yedlin been fit). We've shown before that we can find the odd gem for next to nowt, but ultimately it led to relegation. I thought we would have learned from that but apparently not. It's all a waiting game. All buying teams can see the quality they're buying and many fans of those teams will be excited and optimistic that they will produce. We know that the percentage of buys of quality will fail to produce anything like they promise, due to many reasons. We are no exception to this but I'm optimistic that what we've bough are good enough to do a good enough job for us. That's basically it. As for buying gems and leading to relegation... again, it's down to how they are coached and how they fir into a system or area. Few clubs learn and that includes those playing at the top. It goes tits up for them all in all kinds of ways. We suffer relegations and such like, as do many clubs over the course of a decade and yet the money bags clubs suffer their own destructions and have to basically start again. man Utd being one of then under Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Joselwho?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Tom said: Joselwho?? That's where Napoleon did surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21912 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Lejeune is real quality. I know that for sure after watching him play for 20 minutes. best defender since woodgate, if not cacapa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15518 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Fish said: That's where Napoleon did surrender. Not tonight, Joselwho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Can't say I know much about this lad, his goal record is a bit naff but Rafa seems to rate him so thats a plus. I was underwhelmed with Clark and Atsu as their prior records were also a bit naff, but both have proven canny so far. Of course there have been a few whiffs such as Lazaar but I'm trying to see the positives in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser 1207 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 If Mitro gets his shooting boots on and Gayle can stay fit then to add someone who can provide useful backup is a prudent buy. What Everton has spent is fucking ridiculous compared to what they would have paid a season or two ago. I wonder if the market will settle down to a more reasonable level when they realise that spending huge amounts of money only serves to empty their pockets rather than creating any more success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Everton have recouped most of their outlay, so from one point of view it doesn't appear to look as bad as it should. However, what they have done is made a rod for their own back in terms of a massive hike up of a wage bill, with Rooney sitting right at the top of that pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Looked like he wanted to get amongst it at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4747 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I don't think our forwards are the issue this season, I'd prefer better of course but yesterday there just seemed to be so little service or support from midfield that we could have had anyone up there and it would have made no difference. We need a better operator than Perez(who has gone nowhere but backwards since he arrived) in the number 10 role and more quality in those two base of the midfield positions than we saw yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Aye the 3 in the middle (Hayden, Merino and Perez) were pretty much useless. Not one had any impact on the game at all and Huddersfield pretty much bullied them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7295 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, StoneColdStephenIreland said: Aye the 3 in the middle (Hayden, Merino and Perez) were pretty much useless. Not one had any impact on the game at all and Huddersfield pretty much bullied them. Merino read the play well but his passing was atrocious. Hayden was without glamour in the championship, in the PL so far he gets a participation award just to keep his mam quiet. Perez is never a #10 though the weight on the ball for Ritchie's shot was just right. We need some true quality in midfielf to lift the likes of Ritchie, Atsu, Murphy and Merino. Shelvey too l suppose, but that moron is in my bad books currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Yeah not one of them stamped their authority on the game and got a hold of the ball or bullied them back. I Would just go 442 as the number 10 spot is a waste with the players we have and if we're playing 2 defensive midfielders it would give us an extra outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35059 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 If it was last year in the championship and we'd been playing them away without Shelvey, you'd have expected defeat. Speaks volumes about the lack of investment that that hasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20111 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I only saw the last 5mins yesterday. But from what they were saying on the wireless he didnt do too bad yesterday, it was the lack of service. I said all last season, Perez is too lightweight and shit. He needs getting shot of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4747 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: I said all last season, Perez is too lightweight and shit. He needs getting shot of. What does he actually do anymore? Should've sold him to Barcelona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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