Dr Gloom 21951 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Absolutely gut wrenching pictures and stories from families who have lost everything. I have never seen anything like it. I hate to politicise a tragedy, but this is a man made disaster and could have been prevented. Austerity seems an obvious target but you can't directly link this tragedy with the cuts, yet. The building underwent a recent £8m refurbishment which apparently was signed off with building regs but this should obviously not be happening to a modern building. The material used in the cladding, which went up like kindling, designed to make an ugly concrete high rise more palatable to its millionaire neighbours on the ground below in Kensington, has history of turning a similar building in Australia to an inferno. And there have been warnings from local residents that this building was an accident waiting to happen even after the refurbishment. Someone must be held accountable for this and it can't be allowed to drag on for decades like hillsborough. But I just read that a public inquiry (which is government-led) does not allow people to ask questions (as in an inquest). What does May know and what is she trying to hide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21951 Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just reading that the type of cladding used in the tower had been banned in the US. From the times' piece: Hundreds of aluminium panels called Reynobond are believed to have been fitted to Grenfell Tower by Harley Facades, a small firm subcontracted as part of that refurbishment. Reynobond makes three types of panel: one with a flammable plastic core and two with fire-resistant cores. It is thought that contractors chose the cheaper, more combustible, version for Grenfell. A salesman for US-based Reynobond told The Times that this version, which has a polyethylene core and is known as PE, was banned in American buildings taller than 40ft (12.2m) for fire safety reasons. “It’s because of the fire and smoke spread,” he said. “The FR [variant] is fire-resistant. The PE is just plastic.” The PE version is used for small commercial buildings and petrol stations, he said, rather than for tower blocks or critical buildings such as hospitals. Reynobond’s fire-resistant panel sells for £24 per square metre — £2 more expensive than the standard version. A rough calculation suggests that panels covered more than 2,000 sq m on Grenfell, meaning that contractors could have acquired the fire-resistant version for less than £5,000 extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20204 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 They have done two blocks near me with the same stuff, I would be moving out ASAP. Would this have been signed off in the millionaires mansion? Would it fuck. Apparently National Grid during the refurb said there was issues with the gas and this needed to be either repaired or upgraded. This was never carried out. But as we know with everything with legislation it takes time to come through. But Again. Would Tarquin in his duplux have waited this long for his gas to be sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21951 Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 It must be absolutely terrifying, living in one of these blocks that has had a similar recent refurb with this kind of cladding, knowing it's another potential firetrap. It needs investigating nationwide immediately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4771 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Slacken regulations over and over again to help line someones pockets until something terrible happens. Fuck all will be done to those responsible for this, they'll just change the regs to be firmer in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20204 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/06/16/20-london-high-rises-with-grenfell-cladding-system/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20204 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Another one here http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/06/15/grenfell-tower-fire-probe-focuses-on-cladding/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I thought of the second series of auf wiedershen pet where Ally Fraser has 3 options for the old folks home and wanted the worst - hate to say it but the shift towards profit before anything else is the root cause. Thanks once again to Thatcher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: Just reading that the type of cladding used in the tower had been banned in the US. From the times' piece: Hundreds of aluminium panels called Reynobond are believed to have been fitted to Grenfell Tower by Harley Facades, a small firm subcontracted as part of that refurbishment. Reynobond makes three types of panel: one with a flammable plastic core and two with fire-resistant cores. It is thought that contractors chose the cheaper, more combustible, version for Grenfell. A salesman for US-based Reynobond told The Times that this version, which has a polyethylene core and is known as PE, was banned in American buildings taller than 40ft (12.2m) for fire safety reasons. “It’s because of the fire and smoke spread,” he said. “The FR [variant] is fire-resistant. The PE is just plastic.” The PE version is used for small commercial buildings and petrol stations, he said, rather than for tower blocks or critical buildings such as hospitals. Reynobond’s fire-resistant panel sells for £24 per square metre — £2 more expensive than the standard version. A rough calculation suggests that panels covered more than 2,000 sq m on Grenfell, meaning that contractors could have acquired the fire-resistant version for less than £5,000 extra. Germany and Croatia are the only two countries in Europe where you have to use mineral/steel wool insulation A1 inside these cores once a building is over 8 floors. It's expensive (much more than the 24 quid fire resistant version of the Reynobond). The products you have to use in Germany are virtually impossible to set on fire. Mrs P is an architect she explained it all to me (her office were shocked and were discussing the tragedy other day). The standards in the UK are low... Edited June 16, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21637 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/06/16/20-london-high-rises-with-grenfell-cladding-system/ Don't wait for an inquiry or another tragedy. Strip that cladding off ASAP. If it's true flammable cladding was used to save marginal costs it's truly disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 4269 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Tbf to the sub-contractor they probably presented costs for the three different types of cladding and the client will have chosen the cheaper flammable option. That's what most firms would do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Renton said: Don't wait for an inquiry or another tragedy. Strip that cladding off ASAP. If it's true flammable cladding was used to save marginal costs it's truly disgusting. All the onlookers said the outside of the building went up in 15 min....Fireman being interviewed said they were shocked too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, strawb said: Tbf to the sub-contractor they probably presented costs for the three different types of cladding and the client will have chosen the cheaper flammable option. That's what most firms would do anyway. It should basically be illegal to use 'B' grade material on housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21951 Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Renton said: Don't wait for an inquiry or another tragedy. Strip that cladding off ASAP. If it's true flammable cladding was used to save marginal costs it's truly disgusting. It's apparently on several other tower blocks nationwide. Imagine living in one of these buildings man, how could you sleep at night, knowing what could happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The death toll is going to be huge and all these people aren't going to be 'missing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21951 Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 There were a hundred families in the building, apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Edited June 16, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7034 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Telegraph accusing her of self promotion, completely missing the point. Also 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) The conflict of interest issue she raises is a one that applies to pretty much everything and highlights again the need for MPs to be properly renumerated but also unable to have other business interests, directorships etc. It won't prevent corruption altogether but it would be a bloody good start. Edited June 16, 2017 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4771 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alex said: The conflict of interest issue she raises is a one that applies to pretty much everything and highlights again the need for MPs to be properly renumerated but also unable to have other business interests, directorships etc. It won't prevent corruption altogether but it would be a bloody good start. How much are MPs paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20204 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, Park Life said: Germany and Croatia are the only two countries in Europe where you have to use mineral/steel wool insulation A1 inside these cores once a building is over 8 floors. It's expensive (much more than the 24 quid fire resistant version of the Reynobond). The products you have to use in Germany are virtually impossible to set on fire. Mrs P is an architect she explained it all to me (her office were shocked and were discussing the tragedy other day). The standards in the UK are low... Get her to read this. http://www.bere.co.uk/blog/grenfell-tower Well worth the time to put into reading it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, Andrew said: How much are MPs paid? It's in the region of £70-80k I think. But then I think they get more for actual ministerial positions. It's weird though, because the chief exec of Newcastle City Council earns more than the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: Get her to read this. http://www.bere.co.uk/blog/grenfell-tower Well worth the time to put into reading it. Thanks I'll show it to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 18 minutes ago, Andrew said: How much are MPs paid? If only there was some resource you had access to at the moment which could furnish you with that data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4771 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: It's in the region of £70-80k I think. But then I think they get more for actual ministerial positions. It's weird though, because the chief exec of Newcastle City Council earns more than the PM. so 2 or 3 times the national average plus expenses? Yeah they definitely need a pay rise so they don't have to take these conflict of interest positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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