HM Revenue and customs Investigating NUFC

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Charnley survived a relegation that he was almost solely responsible for, I wouldn't guarantee that this will undo him.

Relegation isn't scandal though. Ashley and SD have just been dragged through the mud over wages and working conditions etc. He doesn't need a tax scandal like

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

I do not believe in the slightest that Charnley has the intelligence to mastermind a tax evasion scheme which is not completely obvious.

[adios 717]

Or a secret Santa...

[The Fish 10857]

Or a prediction competition on a message board without fucking up.

 

 

 

 

-coughHappyFacecough-

[trooper 940]

I do not believe in the slightest that Charnley has the intelligence to mastermind a tax evasion scheme which is not completely obvious.

Nah it wont be him its only a few years since he was filling in the reserve team sheet & sharpening the pencils.

[David Kelly 1245]

I do not believe in the slightest that Charnley has the intelligence to mastermind a tax evasion scheme which is not completely obvious.

Maybe that's why he's been arrested?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Maybe that's why he's been arrested?

 

If CHarnley was in charge they wouldn't need a squad of investigators, they could let the cleaner sort it out.

[David Kelly 1245]

Fair point.

[trooper 940]

The English Football League said it couldn’t say anything about Wednesday’s raids and the situation remains unclear.

 

A spokesperson said: “It would not be appropriate for us to comment at the moment as the investigation is ongoing.”

 

Although the investigation is at an early stage, a precedent has previously been set when clubs have been found guilty of financial irregularities with a points deduction being the outcome.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

The English Football League said it couldn’t say anything about Wednesday’s raids and the situation remains unclear.

 

A spokesperson said: “It would not be appropriate for us to comment at the moment as the investigation is ongoing.”

 

Although the investigation is at an early stage, a precedent has previously been set when clubs have been found guilty of financial irregularities with a points deduction being the outcome.

 

 

Is points deduction not just normally for administration?

[Howay 12496]

Is points deduction not just normally for administration?

Aye that's what I thought, I can't think of any sides in the Championship that have faced a points deduction for dodgy player transfers. Is it even under their control? or is it the FA's decision? 

I don't really see how a points deduction would be a fitting punishment for iffy transfers that happened multiple years ago in another division, however for it to really cause an issue it'll probably have to be a 7+ point deduction which would surely not come under their "precedent".

Scrapped my comment about them licking their lips at the prospect of keeping us down here I missed the end of quotation, so the last bit is just more made up bollocks by a media wanker. I'd like him to point towards recent cases where a points deduction was leveled against dodgy player dealings, it has mostly been transfer bans and/or fines in the cases of West Ham, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca etc. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Howay

[adios 717]

Although the investigation is at an early stage, a precedent has previously been set when clubs have been found guilty of financial irregularities with a points deduction being the outcome.

Examples of this?  Juve?

[Howay 12496]

Examples of this?  Juve?

Juve was match fixing wasn't it?

[adios 717]

I remember it being something far bigger than this seems to be, but fog of old age etc.

[Howay 12496]

I remember it being something far bigger than this seems to be, but fog of old age etc.

Aye, I think it was match fixing. Ended up being like 5 clubs didn't it? This is nowhere near something like that. It seems they've just been manipulating the image rights amounts going off the albeit limited info that's leaking out. 

[The Fish 10857]

 

 

What do the rules say?

According to the English Football League’s rules and regulations regarding sporting sanctions, clubs could face point deductions in the case of an “insolvency event”.

The rules state: “If any club becomes subject to or suffers an insolvency event, that club shall be deducted 12 points.

“If a group undertaking of a club becomes subject to or suffers an insolvency event, then the board shall have the power to impose upon the club a deduction of 12 points scored or to be scored in the League competition.”

This would be subject to appeal but the league’s rules say this point deduction is done because of the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the competition and to protect the reputation of the league and the game of football generally.

When would the points be deducted?

The points would be deducted when the club becomes subject to any insolvency action. If this is before the fourth Thursday in March, the deduction is applied straight away. If it is after the fourth Thursday in March, the club will start the next season on minus 12 points.

 

So could Newcastle be kept in the Championship?

As the team is not facing any insolvency action it is unlikely to see any points deduction at this stage. Of course that may change as the HMRC investigation develops.

The English Football League’s rules do not explicitly say what happens to a club facing insolvency if they were expected to be promoted out of the league, and a spokesperson refused to comment on the issue.

 

What about the Premier League’s rules?

Again the rules are regarding club’s facing insolvency, which there is absolutely no indication Newcastle United could face.

The rules say that teams could face point deduction or demotion to a lower league depending on their ability to fund the club for the next year or to the end of the playing season following a transfer.

Last year the Premier League's executive chairman, Richard Scudamore, said he would want to see clubs hit with the 'ultimate sanction - a points deduction' for serious breaches under Financial Fair Play Rules.

With United effectively caught between the Championship and the Premier League, timing would be key if United were handed any points reduction.

However, W.54 of the Premier League rule book does describe a range of punishments that can be handed down by a disciplinary commission and that includes a points deductions and even expulsion from the league.

 

[NJS 4379]

Spurs had some shit to do with tax a few years ago. They had 12 points deducted but that was set aside on appeal. I can't remember the details of the wrongdoing.

[adios 717]

6-month transfer ban seems by far the most likely.  Hopefully, it happens after the summer window.

[Howay 12496]

6-month transfer ban seems by far the most likely.  Hopefully, it happens after the summer window.

We'd likely appeal and it would come into effect in January, meaning fat boy wins again really.

[ewerk 30602]

Spurs had some shit to do with tax a few years ago. They had 12 points deducted but that was set aside on appeal. I can't remember the details of the wrongdoing.

 

They had Jew lawyers though. Ashley will employ a no win no fee ambulance chaser to defend us.

[trooper 940]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/hmrc-investigation-affect-newcastle-uniteds-12946513

Some previous cases & punishments

[The Fish 10857]

Spurs had some shit to do with tax a few years ago. They had 12 points deducted but that was set aside on appeal. I can't remember the details of the wrongdoing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

 

 

 

Tottenham Hotspur began the season coming to terms with arguably the heaviest punishment ever handed out to an English club. As punishment for financial irregularities committed under the club's previous owners during the 1980s, they were fined £600,000 and were docked 12 league points as well as being banned from the 1994-95 FA Cup. Manager Ossie Ardiles reacted defiantly by adopting an impressive new attacking formation, while chairman Alan Sugar challenged his club's sanctions in court. The fine was later increased to £1.5 million, but the points deduction and FA Cup ban were eventually revoked.

[Howay 12496]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/hmrc-investigation-affect-newcastle-uniteds-12946513

Some previous cases & punishments

Oh so all that was from the Chronicle, good to see them jumping on the hysteria train with the rest of the media. 

No idea why they're talking about the rules for insolvency, that has no bearing on our case whatsoever. Also some of the clubs they mention had issues with insolvency which is why they were docked points, the case of Leeds in 2007 has nowt at all to do with NUFC in this situation.

The Swindon one sounds like a real mess, 36 breaches of league rules and originally given relegation, I can't see our case being comparable to that. The Chesterfield and Boston cases are probably the most similar but it also sounds like both were doing stuff as well as dodgy player sales. 

The Chronicle should be ashamed of itself for this type of crap, trying to create a shit storm and panic. 

[The Fish 10857]

Oh so all that was from the Chronicle, good to see them jumping on the hysteria train with the rest of the media. 

No idea why they're talking about the rules for insolvency, that has no bearing on our case whatsoever. Also some of the clubs they mention had issues with insolvency which is why they were docked points, the case of Leeds in 2007 has nowt at all to do with NUFC in this situation.

The Swindon one sounds like a real mess, 36 breaches of league rules and originally given relegation, I can't see our case being comparable to that. The Chesterfield and Boston cases are probably the most similar but it also sounds like both were doing stuff as well as dodgy player sales. 

The Chronicle should be ashamed of itself for this type of crap, trying to create a shit storm and sell papers/get clicks.

FYP

[Howay 12496]

FYP

Aye I know fully why they would do it but honestly would they not get a better response if they did a proper job and tried to get a sense for the nature of the charges, really looked into the rules to see if there was anything, and to get an idea of what the actual punishment might be? Instead they put up 3 paragraphs about insolvency charges ffs, they may as well discuss the bans teams get in cases of match fixing as it's equally as irrelevant.