SJW Snowflakes

[ewerk 30602]

I don't want to live in a world where it's not okay to punch nazis.

[Rayvin 5220]

Just now, ewerk said:

I don't want to live in a world where it's not okay to punch nazis.

 

Hypothetically, how many lives is that principle worth? Because that's what it's starting to come down to.

[ewerk 30602]

All the lives.

[Rayvin 5220]

 

Then you have my respect and acknowledgement that you are a man of principle.

[Alex 35079]

14 hours ago, Meenzer said:

 

Sounds like they need a safe space, the delicate little flowers.

 

If you think all this is happening because of "Antifa", I don't know what I can do to help you see the wider picture. But then you thought Trump would be fine, so you know.

 

[acrossthepond 877]

I can't believe the depths you are plumbing in this thread, Rayvin. That shrill sound you hear while you're sat there going "oh yes we should let the proper authorities take care of this disgraceful, shocking display of open racism that has not been so blatant since the 70s, not have 'vigilantes starting a clusterfuck'"? That's the world's loudest fucking dog whistle, being given by the "proper authority" sitting in the White House. Fuck off man, have a fucking word with yourself. 

 

These cunts were dead and buried until Trump came along to revitalise them. Now they walk openly through the streets again and talk about a white man's country like the entirety of the previous century never happened. The leader of the KKK endorses Trump and he takes a week to disavow it. Literal nazis ram cars into protesters and all we hear is hand-wringing about "violence." If it was some bloke called fucking Hassan there'd be terror alerts blaring on the news before 5 minutes had passed.

 

Wake the fuck up! This is not OK! Everyone does not need to "join together to end hatred" or "share their viewpoints in legitimate discussion." All sides are not to blame. There is no middle ground on this issue. Those people represent the antithesis of what Western civilization has achieved. They are the terrorists of the Western world and they should be treated as such. 

[Rayvin 5220]

I dont really disagree with that, especially the terrorism label. The point I'm trying to make is that irrespective of what you might want to believe, when trump got in it was the left wing activists that kicked off the violence. I said at the time that this would just give the right an excuse to do the same, and it has done.

 

Great, we punched one Nazi in the face and all felt artificially good about ourselves for a bit. But now it has escalated and people are dying. 

 

Moreover, we need to look at why this is happening. There are MORE people rallying to these causes. The racists were a fringe group and even if Trump has legitimized them, that shouldn't be enough for right thinking people to go on marches with them. The point is that the left has othered the fuck out of white working class men for years now, and it's coming home to roost. There's only so many times you can #killallwhitemen before the more insecure white men start believing the racists about white genocide.

 

My ultimate point, as fucking ever, is that everyone who has engaged in identity politics on a racial level has brought this on us, and there needs to be a collective headshaking about it.

 

I'll grant you that there are two options. We can just start killing the nazis. That's one option. It's uncivilized and we'd lose something in the process, not to mention lives of good people as these Nazis will be well armed, but it's an option. The other is to deconstruct why they're suddenly in the ascendancy - and while yes, they're taking it out on the streets because of Trump, they were on the rise before him too.

 

Shouting at them while they're protesting will of course achieve fuck all. It'll just entrench views. Unless the point is just for us to feel better about ourselves and not actually resolve the problem.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I dont really disagree with that, especially the terrorism label. The point I'm trying to make is that irrespective of what you might want to believe, when trump got in it was the left wing activists that kicked off the violence. I said at the time that this would just give the right an excuse to do the same, and it has done.

 

Great, we punched one Nazi in the face and all felt artificially good about ourselves for a bit. But now it has escalated and people are dying. 

 

Moreover, we need to look at why this is happening. There are MORE people rallying to these causes. The racists were a fringe group and even if Trump has legitimized them, that shouldn't be enough for right thinking people to go on marches with them. The point is that the left has othered the fuck out of white working class men for years now, and it's coming home to roost. There's only so many times you can #killallwhitemen before the more insecure white men start believing the racists about white genocide.

 

My ultimate point, as fucking ever, is that everyone who has engaged in identity politics on a racial level has brought this on us, and there needs to be a collective headshaking about it.

 

I'll grant you that there are two options. We can just start killing the nazis. That's one option. It's uncivilized and we'd lose something in the process, not to mention lives of good people as these Nazis will be well armed, but it's an option. The other is to deconstruct why they're suddenly in the ascendancy - and while yes, they're taking it out on the streets because of Trump, they were on the rise before him too.

 

Shouting at them while they're protesting will of course achieve fuck all. It'll just entrench views. Unless the point is just for us to feel better about ourselves and not actually resolve the problem.

 

 

If you honestly believe this you need to study right wing activism more.

[Rayvin 5220]

I'm just going off what I've seen but if you have evidence to the contrary I'm all ears. Again though, I don't mean this specific protest. I have no idea what happened there. I mean Antifa settings things on fire, launching fireworks at people (not Nazis, just Trump supporters) pummelling people when they're down until they lose consciousness, marching through town centres with automatic weapons, and now apparently shooting people.

 

If I was a Nazi, the above would be an open invitation for escalation. By allowing Antifa to do this stuff, we've given Trump the excuse he needs to say both sides are in the wrong. They are. Ideological views to one side (both ideologies are fucking mental) they're both behaving like each other as far as I've seen.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm just going off what I've seen but if you have evidence to the contrary I'm all ears. Again though, I don't mean this specific protest. I have no idea what happened there. I mean Antifa settings things on fire, launching fireworks at people (not Nazis, just Trump supporters) pummelling people when they're down until they lose consciousness, marching through town centres with automatic weapons, and now apparently shooting people.

 

If I was a Nazi, the above would be an open invitation for escalation. By allowing Antifa to do this stuff, we've given Trump the excuse he needs to say both sides are in the wrong. They are. Ideological views to one side (both ideologies are fucking mental) they're both behaving like each other as far as I've seen.

 

 

Seriously you beggar belief you nazi cunt.

 

So the KKK have never embarked on violent crimes,  Timothy McVeigh was just a bystander. The whole Nazi ideology is based on violent uprising.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Kevin Carr's Gloves

[ewerk 30602]

41 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'll grant you that there are two options. We can just start killing the nazis. That's one option. It's uncivilized and we'd lose something in the process, not to mention lives of good people as these Nazis will be well armed, but it's an option. The other is to deconstruct why they're suddenly in the ascendancy - and while yes, they're taking it out on the streets because of Trump, they were on the rise before him too.

 

 

Aye, they are literally the two options available.

 

Having the police crack down on white supremacy and nazi symbolism isn't possible.  

[ewerk 30602]

 

 

Anyone who disagrees with the above response to a nazi salute needs to reconsider their principles.

[Meenzer 15525]

 

"I have in my hand a piece of paper in which I vow to just try and UNDERSTAND the Nazis better"

[Dr Gloom 21915]

22 hours ago, Meenzer said:

 

Sounds like they need a safe space, the delicate little flowers.

 

If you think all this is happening because of "Antifa", I don't know what I can do to help you see the wider picture. But then you thought Trump would be fine, so you know.

 

He's been watching way too many Sargon of his mother's basement videos. Basically parroting his arguments.

 

i put it down to him giving up porn.

[Rayvin 5220]

26 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

He's been watching way too many Sargon of his mother's basement videos. Basically parroting his arguments.

 

i put it down to him giving up porn.

 

Really? You think Sargon is asking for dialogue

 

EDIT - I will also point out that Sargon is fervently anti-Corbyn and pro-Brexit, so I can't have choked down all of his rhetoric

 

I'm capable of my own thoughts believe it or not, and I've said consistently on here that identity politics (and SJWs are one side of the same coin with the Alt Right IMO) is a cancer of rational, compassionate thought. It's given us Trump, it's given us Brexit, it's given us a resurgent Neo-Nazi wing and an increasingly insecure white voter base for them to prey upon.

 

I mean if you guys thing we can just silence this stuff into submission then fine, good for you. I think evidence clearly - fucking clearly - demonstrates that we can't, but more power to you.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Rayvin

[Meenzer 15525]

The problem with Nazis is non-Nazis. We get it.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

14 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Really? You think Sargon is asking for dialogue

 

EDIT - I will also point out that Sargon is fervently anti-Corbyn and pro-Brexit, so I can't have choked down all of his rhetoric

 

I'm capable of my own thoughts believe it or not, and I've said consistently on here that identity politics (and SJWs are one side of the same coin with the Alt Right IMO) is a cancer of rational, compassionate thought. It's given us Trump, it's given us Brexit, it's given us a resurgent Neo-Nazi wing and an increasingly insecure white voter base for them to prey upon.

 

I mean if you guys thing we can just silence this stuff into submission then fine, good for you. I think evidence clearly - fucking clearly - demonstrates that we can't, but more power to you.

 

i have only watched a few of his videos, so i can't say i'm expert on his work, but you repeat loads of his arguments that i've seen, yeah. the whole antifa being as just as bad as the neo nazis being one of them. 

[Rayvin 5220]

15 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i have only watched a few of his videos, so i can't say i'm expert on his work, but you repeat loads of his arguments that i've seen, yeah. the whole antifa being as just as bad as the neo nazis being one of them. 

 

In terms of kicking off violence, they certainly seem to be. Their ideology is less bad, but that's just a moral position - I don't disagree with it (since Antifa think they're acting for the good everyone at least) but it doesn't change that fact that the violence has been broadly similar on both sides up until this guy killed someone with his car.

 

I do wish to point out, again, that I said this escalation would happen.

 

20 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

The problem with Nazis is non-Nazis. We get it.

 

The problem with people generally is breaking them out of echo chambers and trying to get them to deal with actual problems. I do condemn the Neo-Nazis, in the strongest possible terms. However there were 200 of them there. They were allied with other right wingers. Unite the Right was the name of the march. I mean to be honest, we're just playing into their hands at this point because the non-Nazi right wing contingent will, I would now think, be far more sympathetic to them. How long do we let them use identity politics against us, exactly, before we actually fucking start trying to sort it out? It's all well and good ostracising 200 people in a population of 330m, but about 100m of those 330 voted for Trump, and are being pulled over to the Nazis as much by the Alt Right as they are being pushed by Antifa and the far left. You can say that these people are weak and insecure - a basket of deplorables if you will - but shockingly, that doesn't actually help. The bigger this gets, the bigger a problem we have - and I see nothing from the left that will actually combat this problem. Nothing. It's all just posturing and grandstanding.

 

I'm not sure why my position would surprise anyone tbh. My views on Identity Politics are very clear, and I see terrorism and political fuckheadedness as a consequence of it. All of which we're living through - just so that politicians don't have to affect meaningful change because they can pit everyone against each other. Both on the left and the right.

[Meenzer 15525]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm not sure why my position would surprise anyone tbh.

 

I don't think anyone's surprised.

[Rayvin 5220]

1 minute ago, Meenzer said:

 

I don't think anyone's surprised.

 

Fair enough. Let's hope they make an example of the killer and that it puts off anyone thinking of doing something similar.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

In terms of kicking off violence, they certainly seem to be. Their ideology is less bad, but that's just a moral position - I don't disagree with it (since Antifa think they're acting for the good everyone at least) but it doesn't change that fact that the violence has been broadly similar on both sides up until this guy killed someone with his car.

 

I do wish to point out, again, that I said this escalation would happen.

 

 

The problem with people generally is breaking them out of echo chambers and trying to get them to deal with actual problems. I do condemn the Neo-Nazis, in the strongest possible terms. However there were 200 of them there. They were allied with other right wingers. Unite the Right was the name of the march. I mean to be honest, we're just playing into their hands at this point because the non-Nazi right wing contingent will, I would now think, be far more sympathetic to them. How long do we let them use identity politics against us, exactly, before we actually fucking start trying to sort it out? It's all well and good ostracising 200 people in a population of 330m, but about 100m of those 330 voted for Trump, and are being pulled over to the Nazis as much by the Alt Right as they are being pushed by Antifa and the far left. You can say that these people are weak and insecure - a basket of deplorables if you will - but shockingly, that doesn't actually help. The bigger this gets, the bigger a problem we have - and I see nothing from the left that will actually combat this problem. Nothing. It's all just posturing and grandstanding.

 

I'm not sure why my position would surprise anyone tbh. My views on Identity Politics are very clear, and I see terrorism and political fuckheadedness as a consequence of it. All of which we're living through - just so that politicians don't have to affect meaningful change because they can pit everyone against each other. Both on the left and the right.

 

 

Seriously are you taking the piss? What you are saying is that nazis were not more violent than Antifa until this fuckwit killed someone with a car!

[The Fish 10857]

I don't pop my head in here very often, but I'm trying to pin down Rayvin's position.

 

The counter protesters who go too far with their anti-fascism stance are as bad as the people who go too far pushing their pro-fascism agenda? If we're keeping score I'd say the anti-fascists have some way to catch up with the fascists in terms of going too far. The biggest problem with the left, imo, is they've been too afraid of pissing people off to do anything. 

 

So punch a Nazi, punch all the Nazis, if it's good enough for Captain America, it's good enough for me.

 

[Park Life 71]

Historically the left have killed way more people than the right. It's a false dichotomy anyway. Most of these 'folks' if we quizzed them would come across as confused, ill informed and scared (on both sides). Millennial's have the worst of it in America - high personal debt, wages going down, job scarcity, high rents and social cohesion breaking down in large cities. The Obama legacy.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Park Life

[Rayvin 5220]

14 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I don't pop my head in here very often, but I'm trying to pin down Rayvin's position.

 

The counter protesters who go too far with their anti-fascism stance are as bad as the people who go too far pushing their pro-fascism agenda? If we're keeping score I'd say the anti-fascists have some way to catch up with the fascists in terms of going too far. The biggest problem with the left, imo, is they've been too afraid of pissing people off to do anything. 

 

So punch a Nazi, punch all the Nazis, if it's good enough for Captain America, it's good enough for me.

 

 

My position is about finding a solution aside from virtue signalling and grandstanding. It's a lost cause tbf, so I may as well just fall into line. What concerns me, given how much time I've spent listening to and reading about these 'far right' and 'far left' people in an online setting, is that we're now starting to see a physical manifestation of what is ultimately quite a significant movement online. There are a lot of people online for whom it would only take a small push to send them into Nazism generally. A lot. They might not be out on the streets, but they'll vote that way when it matters. There's a hearts and minds battle to be fought here that no one gives a flying fuck about. And given how frequently we've been blindsided politically by 'not giving a flying fuck about' such people, I am wary.

 

Please note, I'm not talking about a hearts and minds battle for Nazis. I'm talking about it for the people they're starting to pull over. 'Unite the Right' is a chilling thing to call this march, against this backdrop.

 

EDIT - as for Antifa generally, I've seen how their involvement in a multitude of violent acts since Trump took power has played out to the above noted crowds. It's making the nazis look like victims because we have 'free speech' and this 'must be defended irrespective of what they're saying'. Such acts collected together with SJW Professors calling for things like 'white genocide' lead to your unthinking right wingers suddenly become a lot more interested in what Richard Spencer has to say.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21915]

virtue signalling  - wasn't that in renton's rayvin bingo post along with SJW, alt-right etc? 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Dr Gloom