Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 rayvin, have you ever met one of these radfems you speak of? how would you describe them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: I dont think you see enough of this world to say that though. There are more than enough of these people out there on all sides, and if you're going to get "worried" by an increase in nazism in the US, then you owe it to yourself to understand what these people are a reaction to. Both sides fuel and create each other, both sides are becoming more influential, and it really is going to start pervading mainstream society in a noticeable way if it hasnt already. As for the MSM i dont see a problem with that collective grouping really. Corporate media any better? MSM has negative connotations I suppose but i think it is useful to be reminded that no news source is pure. you have used the MSM lable before to group together entire media organisations, regardless of their ownership structure or editorial agenda, as if we're all part of the same club - plainly nonsense. i'll going to pass on trying to psychoanalyse neo-nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I went to university, of course i have... And i didnt socialise with them particularly so my view is little more than that they are damaged and insecure people with a bitter world view, likely caused by an unfortunate life story and ideological brainwashing. Much like the MRAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Dr Gloom said: you have used the MSM lable before to group together entire media organisations, regardless of their ownership structure or editorial agenda, as if we're all part of the same club - plainly nonsense. i'll going to pass on trying to psychoanalyse neo-nazis. How convenient on the last point. I see no issue with grouping organisations. They're not people. I mean i use the term 'EU' to group states. MSM is not a personal identity unless we're about to start dividing and politically rallying people by profession as well now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15526 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I mean i use the term 'EU' to group states. The EU is a group of states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35079 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 These all sound like a group of states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Meenzer said: The EU is a group of states though. Thats great. I'm done with this point unless someone is going to take me to task over the people vs organisations point. Which part of Mainstream and Media is being contended btw? Are the commonly accessed newsources not mainstream? Or are they not media? And if they're all saying the same thing (Corbyn is bad) why not group them? Actually i dont care about this point so I'm happy to just be a hypocrite here if it makes it easier for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44872 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, Rayvin said: If you have been so emotionally crushed by your relationship with a woman, presumably through emotional and or physical abuse, why would you be expected, just because you're a man, to have no lasting damage done to your perception of the other sex? These people need counselling and therapy more often than not, rather than suggestions that they are raped for the crime of being damaged - a comment i found rather unbelievable but the bar is pretty high on here sometimes. I despair at the lack of empathy people have for each other sometimes. People are made hateful, they don't start that way. And i would say the same thing about islamic terrorists fwiw. And any other extremist who peddle hatred because of the damage that has been done to them and the brainwashing they have accepted in a search for meaning. It's as ridiculous to just blanket write off all women because of one relationship as it is to blanket write off all black people if one kicks the fuck out of you in a pub. Because one woman is not the same as all women, and a grown man should be able to differentiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: How convenient on the last point. I see no issue with grouping organisations. They're not people. I mean i use the term 'EU' to group states. MSM is not a personal identity unless we're about to start dividing and politically rallying people by profession as well now. my heart bleeds for neo-nazis, the poor souls - i really ought to want to try to understand why they want to kill jews and black people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: You were the one who said MRAs came before the radfems... dont complain to me that it isnt true. And my very limited understanding of MRA focal points is that they calpaign for mens issues eith respect of court systems and also on issues like the relative underfunding of prostate cancer versus breast cancer. A topical point given that prostate cancer now kills more people and is significantly less well funded. I noted with interest that the Guardian blamed men for this nothing if not consistent. I just can't get on board with the bollocks anymore. Far rather just look at the issues without ideological lenses. As for the whole threat aspect, it depends what you mean. Feminists have spcial power and some of their headliners are openly calling for female supremacy. Not a threat to me personally but i can see how others would take it that way. I think we just disagree historically on when feminism became a potential problem. For me, it wasn't the 60s, or 70s, or 80s...it's only potentially becoming a problem in the last couple years. Misogyny has been a very real, and violent, threat for a long time. That doesn't mean that we are all born with original sin for having the temerity to be born white men. That doesn't mean there isn't rape and violence from the other side. I don't know about you, but I've never had to consider sexual violence when making plans on how to get home at night. I don't think I see things through ideological lenses either, but Peterson has used the funding of ideologues to get where he is, and it is relevant to most people (including me). As I've shown before, he accepted funding from the Canadian version of Fox News (at best). I can find the info again if need be. I'm a fan of plenty of what he says, but ultimately the way he chooses to present himself makes me uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Gemmill said: It's as ridiculous to just blanket write off all women because of one relationship as it is to blanket write off all black people if one kicks the fuck out of you in a pub. Because one woman is not the same as all women, and a grown man should be able to differentiate. I agree. These are clearly not emotionally stable grown men though. As you say, their position is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I went to university, of course i have... And i didnt socialise with them particularly so my view is little more than that they are damaged and insecure people with a bitter world view, likely caused by an unfortunate life story and ideological brainwashing. Much like the MRAs. i went to university too. can't say i ever met a radfem or an mra. maybe you should have gotten out more and just enjoyed being a student? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: my heart bleeds for neo-nazis, the poor souls - i really ought to want to try to understand why they want to kill jews and black people. You dont need to understand why they want what they want, but if you are going to worry about them, as you have confessed to doing because they are "resurgent", surely it would actually make sense for someone to look at WHY this is, instead of just screaming hysterically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, adios said: I think we just disagree historically on when feminism became a potential problem. For me, it wasn't the 60s, or 70s, or 80s...it's only potentially becoming a problem in the last couple years. Misogyny has been a very real, and violent, threat for a long time. That doesn't mean that we are all born with original sin for having the temerity to be born white men. That doesn't mean there isn't rape and violence from the other side. I don't know about you, but I've never had to consider sexual violence when making plans on how to get home at night. I don't think I see things through ideological lenses either, but Peterson has used the funding of ideologues to get where he is, and it is relevant to most people (including me). As I've shown before, he accepted funding from the Canadian version of Fox News (at best). I can find the info again if need be. I'm a fan of plenty of what he says, but ultimately the way he chooses to present himself makes me uncomfortable. As long as you apply the same scrutiny both ways, fair enough. You cant just purity test one side though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: As long as you apply the same scrutiny both ways, fair enough. You cant just purity test one side though. I agree with that and also agree that we should look at the reasons that all people are the way they are with empathy fwiw. I just think I have relatively little to worry about from extreme feminists as opposed to what my sisters have to worry about from women-hating knuckle-draggers. I'm mostly just gutted I don't have to worry about sexual violence on a Saturday night tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i went to university too. can't say i ever met a radfem or an mra. maybe you should have gotten out more and just enjoyed being a student? You're saying that learning different perspectives was a bad thing to do. I see. Tbf that would explain the problem within the media in general i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: You dont need to understand why they want what they want, but if you are going to worry about them, as you have confessed to doing because they are "resurgent", surely it would actually make sense for someone to look at WHY this is, instead of just screaming hysterically? i thought i already made my views clear on this they're resurgent because their president has emboldened them and given them a voice that they've lacked for decades - the torch-wielding, kkk types had very fine people among them, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21922 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: You're saying that learning different perspectives was a bad thing to do. I see. Tbf that would explain the problem within the media in general i guess. where did i say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, adios said: I agree with that and also agree that we should look at the reasons that all people are the way they are with empathy fwiw. I just think I have relatively little to worry about from extreme feminists as opposed to what my sisters have to worry about from women-hating knuckle-draggers. I'm mostly just gutted I don't have to worry about sexual violence on a Saturday night tbh. Are the MRAs the same people who rape women? I genuinely don't know but I would be a little surprised by that. A good number of male feminists have been found guilty of it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: where did i say that? Well that's what I did at university, and you told me I should have just enjoyed myself more. Implication being "why were you wasting time talking to radfems" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i thought i already made my views clear on this they're resurgent because their president has emboldened them and given them a voice that they've lacked for decades - the torch-wielding, kkk types had very fine people among them, remember? Ok. Thats not true but ok. If you look at where many of those who attended Charlottesville came from - nice households with no history of racism, who were shocked that their sons were attending such an event, to the point of then excommunucating them from the family... These arent dyed in the wool racists, not all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35079 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I thought I wasted my time at university until now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Are the MRAs the same people who rape women? I genuinely don't know but I would be a little surprised by that. A good number of male feminists have been found guilty of it though. I'm comparing the threat of misandry and misogyny there. I just happen to think 95% of MRAs are sad little wankers, particularly those that existed prior to about 10 years ago. And, ironically, there's probably a degree of chauvinism in that sentiment. I'm not that concerned with labelling rapists as anything other than rapists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44872 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, adios said: I agree with that and also agree that we should look at the reasons that all people are the way they are with empathy fwiw. I just think I have relatively little to worry about from extreme feminists as opposed to what my sisters have to worry about from women-hating knuckle-draggers. I'm mostly just gutted I don't have to worry about sexual violence on a Saturday night tbh. I bet you go out looking (and sounding) like Lilo Lil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Gemmill said: I bet you go out looking (and sounding) like Lilo Lil. I've just googled her and looked at an image, all I can see is what the fuck is that? And yes, it's like looking in a mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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