2017 GE 1

[Park Life 71]

''Why, Oh Why, Oh Why do we allow Al Qu’aeda bosses such freedom? Not only are they probably communists, but Al Qu’aeda bosses have this week been revealed as allowing foreign illegals to live.
If only the Government and the guacomole-munchers of Islington were a little less concerned with helping Johnny-foreigner and a little more concerned with the rights of the hard working majority of our glorious Nation, then perhaps Al Qu’aeda bosses would not get away with such treachery.
That certainly seems to be the opinion of A hardworking family who this week said, "the lady’s not for turning".
So, next time you are at a dinner party and the menu involves sun dried tomatoes, just consider whether you think that allowing foreign illegals to live is a good idea'' /Lord Ponsenby

Edited May 26, 2017 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21847]

@Alex i don't think jihadi ideology was caused by UK foreign policy. uk foreign policy hasn't helped matters. i thought the iraq war was a disgrace, but do i think we wouldn't be a target for jihadis if we's stayed out? no, i don't - look at sweden. they see it as a war on the west and our values, regardless of whether the western countries they target engage in illegal wars. sweden have a pretty benign foreign policy tbf as do the germans. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5186]

4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i think you can. the jihadi ideology existed before we invaded iraq and afghanistan. 

 

not that those interventions helped matters, but still. 

 

anyway this is old ground that we've been over a million times before. the point is corbyn is a moron for trotting out this line now of all times, when he's trying to win an election and people are in shock, mourning or fucking furious. they won't want to hear this shit. 

 

We can't control the ideology, we can control our foreign policy. But yes, you're right - we've done this before and it's pointless to redo it.

 

You're also right about people still experiencing an emotional reaction to the event - they'll just want to blame the Muslims. Let's just hope that they understand what he's saying, and see that he's offering more police and security than the Tories are.

[Meenzer 15432]

1 minute ago, Park Life said:

''Why, Oh Why, Oh Why do we allow Al Qu’aeda bosses such freedom? Not only are they probably communists, but Al Qu’aeda bosses have this week been revealed as allowing foreign illegals to live.
If only the Government and the guacomole-munchers of Islington were a little less concerned with helping Johnny-foreigner and a little more concerned with the rights of the hard working majority of our glorious Nation, then perhaps Al Qu’aeda bosses would not get away with such treachery.
That certainly seems to be the opinion of A hardworking family who this week said, "the lady’s not for turning".
So, next time you are at a dinner party and the menu involves sun dried tomatoes, just consider whether you think that allowing foreign illegals to live'' Lord Ponsenby

 

Are you okay?

[Dr Gloom 21847]

guacomole-munchers of Islington

[Park Life 71]

1 minute ago, Meenzer said:

 

Are you okay?

DMSG.

[Meenzer 15432]

Just now, Park Life said:

DMSG.

 

Ohh

[Park Life 71]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

guacomole-munchers of Islington

That's you innit?

[Dr Gloom 21847]

i'm a falafel muncher of east dulwich tbf

[Park Life 71]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm not in a fucking echo chamber, I spend most of my days reading news that contradicts everything I believe 

 

 

''The subject is rich, complex, and entirely new to me, as, I can only suspect, it will be to most posters. The voices are singing in Nüshu, meaning “woman’s hand,” a language developed and used exclusively by Rayvin in feudal Hackney. This ancient script filled journals gifted to young Momentum supporters and was also embroidered into clothing. The passages, according to the exhibition didactic, narrate the sorrow and isolation common to the progressive left. Today the language is all but forgotten. R's subject opens an incredibly fertile ground through which to think of the space of communication, resistance, as well as the layers of code written into his posts on TT, each of which is only readable to its particular audience of Ivory Tower socialist bredren.'' / The Thompson Twins

[Rayvin 5186]

...are you on shrooms today Parky?

[Dr Gloom 21847]

He's been on the precipice for a while, something has finally sent him over the edge

[PaddockLad 17124]

41 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

he makes a reasonable point about the terrorist attacks in sweden. was uk foreign policy to blame there too? 

 

Sweden wasn't under attack before  US/UK went into Iraq. The whole world has become less safe. Huge events radicalise young Moslems and obviously the foreign policy of the early/mid 00s was complelty dictated by 9/11.

 

The thing is going into Afghanistan to wipe out bin laden was probably justifiable. Going into Iraq on a blatant and obvious lie (millions marched against it, but what did they know?)  is something that can't be blamed on a twisted ideology. That action created Isis. Locking jihadists and senior bathist military officers up in the same prison whilst nicking a sovereign state's oil, after deposing the man who kept a lid on things for 40 years is something that should be pointed out to the British public as a mistake iyam. 

[Rayvin 5186]

Corbyn backed by an editorial in the Guardian:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/26/jeremy-corbyn-manchester-british-foreign-policy

 

Also criticised for making political capital out of Manchester though, which I'm inclined to agree with also. As 'slight' as it is, the reference to policing is there.

[ewerk 30369]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

The thing is going into Afghanistan to wipe out bin laden was probably justifiable. Going into Iraq on a blatant and obvious lie (millions marched against it, but what did they know?)  is something that can't be blamed on a twisted ideology. That action created Isis. Locking jihadists and senior bathist military officers up in the same prison whilst nicking a sovereign state's oil, after deposing the man who kept a lid on things for 40 years is something that should be pointed out to the British public as a mistake iyam. 

 

What good would it do?

[Rayvin 5186]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

What good would it do?

 

To point it out?

 

How does the notion of stopping it from happening again grab you? Very similar thing happened in Libya and, it could be argued, nearly happened (if not for Miliband) in Syria. At some point we need to stop fucking with other countries.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Sweden wasn't under attack before  US/UK went into Iraq. The whole world has become less safe. Huge events radicalise young Moslems and obviously the foreign policy of the early/mid 00s was complelty dictated by 9/11.

 

The thing is going into Afghanistan to wipe out bin laden was probably justifiable. Going into Iraq on a blatant and obvious lie (millions marched against it, but what did they know?)  is something that can't be blamed on a twisted ideology. That action created Isis. Locking jihadists and senior bathist military officers up in the same prison whilst nicking a sovereign state's oil, after deposing the man who kept a lid on things for 40 years is something that should be pointed out to the British public as a mistake iyam. 

 

i agree with you that it was a massive mistake and the vacuum it left behind allowed jihadism to flourish, which resulted in the creation of isis. the isis ideology is just another form of jihadism though, an an even more savage form, yes, but they took the baton on from al qaeda and i don't think that can be pinned on uk foreign policy - that desire to destroy the west and everything it stands for, manifested in 9/11, pre-dates our illegal invasion in Iraq. 

 

politically speaking, i don't think corbyn pointing out western imperialist mistakes of the past is going to do him any favours in the aftermath of the manchester attack. he's got an election to win. this won't help. 

[Park Life 71]

Our leaders from Blair to Cameron seem happy with the trade off between the safety of the population as against badly thought through Neo-Imperialist interventions in the middle east. The asset grabbing for oil companies and multi-nationals and geopolitical aims seems to trump every time the cost in human life on all sides and cultural cohesion at home.  They basically don't give a flying fuck.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21847]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

To point it out?

 

How does the notion of stopping it from happening again grab you? Very similar thing happened in Libya and, it could be argued, nearly happened (if not for Miliband) in Syria. At some point we need to stop fucking with other countries.

 

sometimes military intervention is necessary. would corbyn have gone to war with nazi germany? i'd hate that question ever to be put to him. 

[Rayvin 5186]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

 

i agree with you that it was a massive mistake and the vacuum it left behind allowed jihadism to flourish, which resulted in the creation of isis. the isis ideology is just another form of jihadism though, an an even more savage form, yes, but they took the baton on from al qaeda and i don't think that can be pinned on uk foreign policy - that desire to destroy the west and everything it stands for, manifested in 9/11, pre-dates our illegal invasion in Iraq. 

 

politically speaking, i don't think corbyn pointing out western imperialist mistakes of the past is going to do him any favours in the aftermath of the manchester attack. he's got an election to win. this won't help. 

 

It's gonna be interesting to see what the papers make of it. Do you think it's going to be a massive talking point or just a headline?

[NJS 4375]

I think when Renton and I have had this argument with HF we've sort of agreed that it's all part of the deal - the middle east has been shit on and adding a toxic ideology and shit lives into the mix produces sick people. Different people probably have different mixes. 

 

As for cause and effect I'd put forward Spain - they were a happy member of the war on terror until Alcotcha and then publicly backed off - as a result they have had nor more shite. 

[Rayvin 5186]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

 

sometimes military intervention is necessary. would corbyn have gone to war with nazi germany? i'd hate that question ever to be put to him. 

 

I agree that it is. I'm not certain we've lived through a 'necessary' conflict though.

[Rayvin 5186]

Just now, NJS said:

I think when Renton and I have had this argument with HF we've sort of agreed that it's all part of the deal - the middle east has been shit on and adding a toxic ideology and shit lives into the mix produces sick people. Different people probably have different mixes. 

 

As for cause and effect I'd put forward Spain - they were a happy member of the war on terror until Alcotcha and then publicly backed off - as a result they have had nor more shite. 

 

I think this is what it is too. I just think the easiest thing for us to control is our own foreign policy.

[NJS 4375]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I agree that it is. I'm not certain we've lived through a 'necessary' conflict though.

There's been fuck all worth fighting for since WW2. 

[Park Life 71]