Andrew 4966 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, Christmas Tree said: I worry that Corbyn would struggle secure a good Brexit deal. I would rather we stay in than get eaten alive in the negotiation. On this, since May trots this one out now and then. Will the PM be the front line of the negotiation? I can't imagine so, there will be ministers and lawyers all over the shop in which case it is more about the team involved, in which case any one not including boris ought to have an upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14021 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 May has done a fucking terrible job of "negotiating"* so far. *being dictated to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 The comments on there can be planted. But Interesting to note the positive and negative counts on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 What about the Tory negotiating team inspires so much confidence CT? Davis looks a total lightweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, Andrew said: On this, since May trots this one out now and then. Will the PM be the front line of the negotiation? I can't imagine so, there will be ministers and lawyers all over the shop in which case it is more about the team involved, in which case any one not including boris ought to have an upper hand. I can just about stomach lower minions taking over the policy wheel from the likes of McDonnel and Abbott, but I still think the PM is going to be involved in a lot of hard ball over Brexit. It doesn't help that there position on this so far has been weak as piss. remember a lot of "men on the street" remember vast numbers of Labour MP's having a vote of no confidence in Corbyn only last summer. As I said 10 days ago the policies are very appealing and even though there's holes in their costings, particularly borrowing, on the whole they've done well. Just Brexit that is the Achilles heel for me. As I've said, it's very close and could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31587 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I genuinely think that Labour would bring a more conciliatory tone to negotiations which would be much better than what we've seen from the Tories so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35913 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, ewerk said: I genuinely think that Labour would bring a more conciliatory tone to negotiations which would be much better than what we've seen from the Tories so far. I suggested as much a while back. The strong leader is the one prepared to compromise in the best interests of all concerned as opposed to the one who's terrified of the Mail, Sun, Sky News etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 37 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Pretty much as I forecast 10 days ago that Labours manifesto was very good and the polls would change. I certainly didn't foresee such an abysmal Tory manifesto. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot over and over. Expect her to get crucified of Neil tonight. Ad for my man on the street view. My only real worry about a Labour government is the people in charge. I worry that Corbyn would struggle secure a good Brexit deal. I would rather we stay in than get eaten alive in the negotiation. i think if Labour had a better top team this would be in the bag already. It now boils down to how the prime time interview go and whatever Linton Crosby has lined up for the last week. Not quite the firm commitment to vote Labour i was hoping for. Since being elected leader has May done anything that you respected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35913 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I can just about stomach lower minions taking over the policy wheel from the likes of McDonnel and Abbott, but I still think the PM is going to be involved in a lot of hard ball over Brexit. It doesn't help that there position on this so far has been weak as piss. remember a lot of "men on the street" remember vast numbers of Labour MP's having a vote of no confidence in Corbyn only last summer. As I said 10 days ago the policies are very appealing and even though there's holes in their costings, particularly borrowing, on the whole they've done well. Just Brexit that is the Achilles heel for me. As I've said, it's very close and could go either way. Behave yourself, fatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Rayvin said: What about the Tory negotiating team inspires so much confidence CT? Davis looks a total lightweight. Disagree on Davis and he's backed up by May who has played it pretty well for me. There's still a lot of willy waving going on and we need to be waving, even helicoptering as much as possible before talks start. Labours message on this is all damp squib. They've basically hoisted the white flag already by saying they wouldn't be prepared to walk away from the table. If they want to convince the majority of leavers then they need to come out and start laying some real plans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4966 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: he's backed up by May who has played it pretty well for me WHAT?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Disagree on Davis and he's backed up by May who has played it pretty well for me. There's still a lot of willy waving going on and we need to be waving, even helicoptering as much as possible before talks start. Labours message on this is all damp squib. They've basically hoisted the white flag already by saying they wouldn't be prepared to walk away from the table. If they want to convince the majority of leavers then they need to come out and start laying some real plans out. The thing is, it's entirely unknowable. Davis himself has said he has no idea what 'no deal' will look like, and that seems to be almost certainly what we'll get. There are too many variables to know. So you're basically putting your trust in nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35913 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Davis is just another one who liked to be pro-leave when he thought there wasn't chance of it happening tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Happy Face said: Not quite the firm commitment to vote Labour i was hoping for. Since being elected leader has May done anything that you respected? For me she's played pre Brexit perfectly, starting with her mansion house speech and handled sturgeon / Indy ref 2 very well. I do also think that she gets Brexit and understands there was a lot more to it than the EU. She comes across very very well and seems prepared to try and sort out some of the long term problems. However Brexit has changed everything and my ideal scenario would be the Tories implementing Labours manifesto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, ewerk said: I genuinely think that Labour would bring a more conciliatory tone to negotiations which would be much better than what we've seen from the Tories so far. Thats all well and good but the EU is not reknown for being very conciliatory in negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: For me she's played pre Brexit perfectly, starting with her mansion house speech and handled sturgeon / Indy ref 2 very well. I do also think that she gets Brexit and understands there was a lot more to it than the EU. She comes across very very well and seems prepared to try and sort out some of the long term problems. However Brexit has changed everything and my ideal scenario would be the Tories implementing Labours manifesto You lost me. Her hard brexit stance has been played to perfection for you.... even though you prefer the labour vision of brexit? Doesn't sound like something she should hang her hat on for you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31587 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Thats all well and good but the EU is not reknown for being very conciliatory in negotiations. Example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: The thing is, it's entirely unknowable. Davis himself has said he has no idea what 'no deal' will look like, and that seems to be almost certainly what we'll get. There are too many variables to know. So you're basically putting your trust in nothing. No, I think the Tories WOULD get a very good deal. Nothing Labour has said so far convinces me that they will. Now while I appreciate the general consensus on TT, if Labour want to win they have to convince working class Tory voting leavers. The manifesto has gone a long way, just this Brexit hurdle they need to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Happy Face said: You lost me. Her hard brexit stance has been played to perfection for you.... even though you prefer the labour vision of brexit? Doesn't sound like something she should hang her hat on for you then. I like Labours domestic manifesto, not their Brexit stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35913 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: Example? All those other countries that have left. And because it's obviously in everyone's interests to make this as awkward as possible as opposed to maintaining the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35913 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: No, I think the Tories WOULD get a very good deal. Nothing Labour has said so far convinces me that they will. Now while I appreciate the general consensus on TT, if Labour want to win they have to convince working class Tory voting leavers. The manifesto has gone a long way, just this Brexit hurdle they need to address. A CRACKING deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31587 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: I like Labours domestic manifesto, not their Brexit stance. What is it about their Brexit stance that you don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4920 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, ewerk said: Example? The numerous re-runs on referendums they didn't win, their dealings with Greece, their comments following Brexit of wanting to punish the U.K. Macron even called it a crime. These are hard nosed sharks that (imo) would devour Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31587 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alex said: All those other countries that have left. And because it's obviously in everyone's interests to make this as awkward as possible as opposed to maintaining the status quo. 'Strong and stable leadership. Until it comes to the EU, we'll just wing that.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: The numerous re-runs on referendums they didn't win, their dealings with Greece, their comments following Brexit of wanting to punish the U.K. Macron even called it a crime. These are hard nosed sharks that (imo) would devour Corbyn. Corbyn hasn't been successfully devoured by the entire PLP, the media, or the Tories. He's stuck at it through it all, and has resolutely stood fast to his principles. I don't think the EU would be able to intimidate him whatsoever. The risk, if there is one, is that he commits the same error as May and fails to see the good deal in pursuit of the holy grail deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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