2017 GE 1

[adios 717]

  

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

4 minutes ago, adios said:

Don't make threats you clearly can't backup.  As you've said, they've got her over a barrel either way, so why lose face with a move with no value?

 

Do suggest leverage if you actually have it.  Otherwise, you just have to do the best deal you can do, without being soft as shite.

 

You do understand that negotiation isn't actually like Gordon Gekko in Wall Street?  Certainly not in the EU.

 

They want a deal as well. They'd prefer it was more beneficial to them and that there's a pain element for us for deterrent purposes. So there is some leverage. You still haven't offered an alternative negotiating stance. How do you go about doing the best deal that you can do? By announcing beforehand that you'll take what's offered? 

[Park Life 71]

Or perhaps Wolfy...''The EU doesn't exist mate''.

[Meenzer 15518]

3 minutes ago, Park Life said:

Think Basil Fawlty could do a job.

 

 

Shhhh, that's David Davis's opening gambit you're giving away there!

[adios 717]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

They want a deal as well. They'd prefer it was more beneficial to them and that there's a pain element for us for deterrent purposes. So there is some leverage. You still haven't offered an alternative negotiating stance. How do you go about doing the best deal that you can do? By announcing beforehand that you'll take what's offered? 

Personally, I would say whatever waffle non-answer worked best to the press and do the actual negotiations in private.  In fact, if May had said to them "this is all just for political capital, obviously we'll find some solution" I think that'd be quite smart (in one respect).

 

I can't give you specifics of what deal she should take because I have no fucking idea what those specifics are.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

If she pledges a solution then she's under greater pressure to do any deal offered. It weakens an already weak hand

[Park Life 71]

There will be mountains and mountains of paperwork so Boris (I don't do details) Johnson would be best.

[adios 717]

7 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

If she pledges a solution then she's under greater pressure to do any deal offered. It weakens an already weak hand

We're just going around in circles here.  They both know (and they both know they both know) that a deal has to be done.

 

Which I thought you'd stated yourself earlier.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Yep and your starting stance determines how much room for manoeuvre you leave yourself. 

[Howmanheyman 33166]

Fucking paxman, waving the labour manifesto around, (must've lost the Tory one as he never waved that), fucking monarchy questions, no NHS questions, Falkland questions, what an absolute farce from the long faced Tory cunt.

[Park Life 71]

Done a reverse Macron

 

[adios 717]

9 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Yep and your starting stance determines how much room for manoeuvre you leave yourself. 

One of us is having trouble with basic English and/or Logic.

 

I haven't slept for 2 days so maybe it's me.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

7 hours ago, adios said:

 

 

You do understand that negotiation isn't actually like Gordon Gekko in Wall Street?  Certainly not in the EU.

 

 

End of argument, some idiots clearly don't understand that. If you hadn't already lost hope in May already, last night cemented it. She got lost in her own hyperbole. 

 

The thing that struck me is that the Tories don't have a manifesto, just a few half baked consultation documents. You would think Labour had called this election and caught them on the hoof. The arrogance is unbelievable. They have gone long on the unelectability of Corbyn and the steadiness of May and now the public are meeting them both properly it's becoming apparent that neither of the above are true. She is out of her depth and her record in politics is shocking. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Anorthernsoul

[wolfy 12]

7 hours ago, Park Life said:

Or perhaps Wolfy...''The EU doesn't exist mate''.

You can call each and everything what it tells you. EU and what not. You can argue this Brexit carry on and get deep down into the politics argument forever and a day.

The truth of the matter is there for all to see... and that is...we are getting systematically toyed with  whichever party takes over. They feather their own nests whilst promising to a small makeover to ours, which ends up as a extra diluted whitewash.

 

Your voting card gives you the mindset that you are being part of changing something or keeping something you think is working.

None of it is working because none of it is set out to work like people think.

 

Nothing is done by accident and mistakes are not made that are not already accounted for with contingency plans.

It's just a game of chess between all parties.

The losers are always us, no matter which way it's looked at.

 

All this in or out the EU is a nonsense. It doesn't alter anything in reality, it just appears to alter certain things, until later we all find out that nothing's really changed much and certainly never for the overall better.

Just snippets of pacifying words and the odd action to show a sort of truth before it's all taken away with the sleight of hand.

 

If the British people really did speak out. And I mean the real British population, without class separation, then this country would not be running like it is. Hospitals would not be closing and understaffed, with staff working ridiculous hours, as just a starter.

Nurses classed as low class and paid crap wages then lokums coming in and being paid 50? 60? 80? 100 or so an hour.

 

It's not accidental. None of it is accidental.

Just remember that all money is sanctioned from the top for whatever happens in this country, as an instance.

 

People are governed by what might happen to them if they vote for a certain party.

The reality is that all parties will work on the simple stance of giving to take away.

 

I wouldn't waste my time voting because they count for nothing in the end.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by wolfy

[ewerk 30598]

I never thought I'd see the day but it looks like we've found someone who is a worse political poster than CT.

[Meenzer 15518]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I never thought I'd see the day but it looks like we've found someone who is a worse political poster than CT.

 

More consistent though.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

I'm away so didn't see the debate last night  but according to twitter Corbyn did well again. May much more flustered. She really is fucking shit isn't she

[Rayvin 5217]

59 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I'm away so didn't see the debate last night  but according to twitter Corbyn did well again. May much more flustered. She really is fucking shit isn't she

 

Aye but Twitters is full of 'bleeding heart lefties'. She got a decent cheer when she was talking about her hardline on Brexit, and save for Paxman making her look a bit stupid once, she was otherwise fairly robust.

 

I don't think this interview will have done her any favours, but I'm not sure it's done her any harm either. Arguably it has done Corbyn a favour, so there's that at least.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21915]

I read the audience were laughing at her at one point, which is nice

[Andrew 4748]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

I never thought I'd see the day but it looks like we've found someone who is a worse political poster than CT.

 

Aye but at least this one isn't going to vote.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I think there was nothing to see here in last nights debate. Corbyn is a good talker, but howay, that's basically all he's done since leaving his pampered private education. Talk / protest / talk / protest. Paxman was hopeless and neither politician got a real severe drill down drilling on the big issues.

 

May, has been in government for 7 years and therefore has a record to be judged on. She is also not a seasoned campaigner like Corbyn so is less comfortable in that situation. Corbyn is offering free everything for everyone. Who wouldn't like that.

 

More important to me was coming back from the Lakes yesterday and watching the likes of Dianne Abbott on Marr. This woman could actually be Home Secretary in just over a week

 

I really do like the free stuff, but I'm struggling with my conscience voting for Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell. I do have serious issues with not only their back story, but their actual intelligence and ability to run the country.

[Alex 35077]

Struggling with his conscience

[Rayvin 5217]

On 2015-9-13 at 5:34 PM, Rayvin said:

This is actually exactly why Corbyn is needed - not to win the next election but to shift the debate back over to the left rather than calling the centre-right of politics, the 'centre'.

 

If we had an 'electable' Labour leader who was fighting with the Tories over the right-of-centre ground, even if they won we'd end up with something that looks nothing like progressive politics.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/29/election-centre-ground-left-labour-tory-manifestos

 

"Whatever the outcome, this election has forced the centreground to the left"

 

 

[Meenzer 15518]

The question is whether the Tories will stay there after they're elected.

[Rayvin 5217]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

I think there was nothing to see here in last nights debate. Corbyn is a good talker, but howay, that's basically all he's done since leaving his pampered private education. Talk / protest / talk / protest. Paxman was hopeless and neither politician got a real severe drill down drilling on the big issues.

 

May, has been in government for 7 years and therefore has a record to be judged on. She is also not a seasoned campaigner like Corbyn so is less comfortable in that situation. Corbyn is offering free everything for everyone. Who wouldn't like that.

 

More important to me was coming back from the Lakes yesterday and watching the likes of Dianne Abbott on Marr. This woman could actually be Home Secretary in just over a week

 

I really do like the free stuff, but I'm struggling with my conscience voting for Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell. I do have serious issues with not only their back story, but their actual intelligence and ability to run the country.

 

The civil service run the country, all politicians do is aim them at things. Agreed on Abbott, she's a liability. But then look at Johnson. We have utterly shit politicians for an utterly shit time.