2017 GE 1

[Dr Gloom 22518]

It isn't pointless. You vote to keep the Tory bastards out.

[Alex 35916]

Corbyn stood with no prospect of being elected, as he saw it. Sounds as though it was simply something those on the left did every time just to make sure the others paid lipservice to left wing idealism. I doubt he wanted this any more than you wanted him. However, it's hard to deny the fact that a lot of people backed him and that if he had not seen this through, he would have looked an absolute charlatan.

 

He was voted in because people were sick of the failures of the alternative. Blaming him for the failures of those who came before, is pointless.

 

All that is going to happen following this election, is that Labour will lose - Corbyn will stand down, or at least very probably will - and members will desert Labour in their droves. You'll get your party back, they will go back to being able to challenge the Tories with their own, slightly nuanced version of Neoliberalism, and nothing will change. It'll be like it was all a bad dream and nothing more.

 

In the meantime, once that happens, I probably just won't vote. Because it looks absolutely pointless for someone with my views.

Grow up

[Dr Gloom 22518]

His crime is even worse when you take into account that think tank after think tank, poll after poll, survey after survey, focus group after focus group, foundation after foundation, steering committee after steering committee, Fabian discussion group after Fabian discussion group, time after time hammer home the heightened significance of the importance of perceived leadership skills, personality and charisma among the electorate. And that the reports across the board with reg to Corbyn have been nothing short of catastrophic.

 

Corbyn

 

What's more amazing is he's losing a personality contest with Theresa fucking may

[Rayvin 5572]

Grow up

 

After all the shit I've given New Labour, Neoliberalism, and the fundamental failings of our system, what kind of monumental hypocritical arsehole would I be if I then voted for the same people? 'Grow up' ffs.

 

No.

[Park Life 71]

How Corbyn chanced into the leadership. A long but in depth read.

 

http://www.businessinsider.de/momentum-the-inside-story-of-how-jeremy-corbyn-took-control-of-the-labour-party-2016-2?r=UK&IR=T

[ewerk 31589]

After all the shit I've given New Labour, Neoliberalism, and the fundamental failings of our system, what kind of monumental hypocritical arsehole would I be if I then voted for the same people? 'Grow up' ffs.

 

No.

 

So it's either someone who meets your specific political views or to hell with everyone?

[Rayvin 5572]

So it's either someone who meets your specific political views or to hell with everyone?

 

It's someone who isn't Neoliberal or to hell with everyone. Largely because the Neolibs are just perpetuating the hell.

 

Not that they're harming me personally, to be quite honest. This isn't actually a massive departure for me - I only just managed to vote Labour last time due to be thoroughly disillusioned with the entire process, and I doubt I'd have done so this time if they'd continued with more of the same (though who knows with Brexit I guess). I'm not responsible for the people who vote Tory at the end of the day but I am responsible for who I do vote for.

 

 

How Corbyn chanced into the leadership. A long but in depth read.

 

http://www.businessinsider.de/momentum-the-inside-story-of-how-jeremy-corbyn-took-control-of-the-labour-party-2016-2?r=UK&IR=T

 

This is interesting in a sense but it's also what I already knew. This was never about Corbyn and everything to do with the sentiments that brought him to power. And it really could have become something more had a similar anti-establishment movement not taken place in the form of Brexit. A shame.

[Renton 22403]

Sounds like a typical momentum member. Would rather be principled than be in power.

 

As Gloom says, at this stage it should be about stopping the Tory cunts or at least curbing their worst excesses. But no, let's just leave them to it and cling to our 6th form politics instead.

[Alex 35916]

The hell :lol:

[Park Life 71]

If this bloke wasn't in Militant Tendency I'm my cats uncle.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/05/jon-lansman-interview-theres-no-leader-who-would-find-it-easier-win-jeremy

[ewerk 31589]

It's someone who isn't Neoliberal or to hell with everyone. Largely because the Neolibs are just perpetuating the hell.

 

Not that they're harming me personally, to be quite honest. This isn't actually a massive departure for me - I only just managed to vote Labour last time due to be thoroughly disillusioned with the entire process, and I doubt I'd have done so this time if they'd continued with more of the same (though who knows with Brexit I guess). I'm not responsible for the people who vote Tory at the end of the day but I am responsible for who I do vote for.

 

 

 

This is interesting in a sense but it's also what I already knew. This was never about Corbyn and everything to do with the sentiments that brought him to power. And it really could have become something more had a similar anti-establishment movement not taken place in the form of Brexit. A shame.

 

For a lefty you're incredibly selfish.

[Park Life 71]

It's pretty clear Labour have undergone a coup. Signing up people at Glastonbury ffs!

 

Deluded, drug addled hippies are in control of the Labour party.

[Rayvin 5572]

Sounds like a typical momentum member. Would rather be principled than be in power.

 

As Gloom says, at this stage it should be about stopping the Tory cunts or at least curbing their worst excesses. But no, let's just leave them to it and cling to our 6th form politics instead.

 

I'm not a member of momentum. I'm not even 100% clear on what they stand for.

 

I am, however, not an idiot. And it's plain as fucking day that neoliberalism is getting us a universal shafting from the hard right at the moment, and no amount of delusional blaming of Corbyn is going to change that. And all for what? So the super rich can keep their cabal at the top going, where big businesses are saved at the expense of the taxpayer (free market my arse) and wealth and income inequality soars.

 

No fucking thank you.

[Rayvin 5572]

For a lefty you're incredibly selfish.

 

What do I get out of this, exactly? If I was thinking about my own interests, I'd be voting Tory.

[Park Life 71]

I'm not a member of momentum. I'm not even 100% clear on what they stand for.

 

I am, however, not an idiot. And it's plain as fucking day that neoliberalism is getting us a universal shafting from the hard right at the moment, and no amount of delusional blaming of Corbyn is going to change that. And all for what? So the super rich can keep their cabal at the top going, where big businesses are saved at the expense of the taxpayer (free market my arse) and wealth and income inequality soars.

 

No fucking thank you.

All we are saying is that Corbyn could have managed the damage by stepping down instead of continuing with those Depeche Mode videos and tilling his sweet potato  yam allotment. I think that is clear even to a summertime Marxist like myself.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Park Life

[ewerk 31589]

What do I get out of this, exactly? If I was thinking about my own interests, I'd be voting Tory.

 

Fuck the people that the centre left would help. Fuck them in their arses.

 

 

Edit: Oh and what you get is a smug sense of superiority that no one on the political scene meets your impossibly high level of morals.

Edited May 5, 2017 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5572]

All we are saying is that Corbyn could have managed the damage by stepping down instead of continuing with those Depeche Mode videos and tilling his sweet potato allotment. I think that is clear even to a summertime Marxist like myself.

 

That is not all that is being said. Renton has attributed half of the blame for the current state of British politics to Corbyn. Which is absolutely absurd, and ignores all of the forces that got him to where he is. In fact, you article posted over the page that explains how he came to power actually reinforces this. Corbyn was almost an unwitting participant in what was, and I can't say this clearly enough, a rejection of the Neoliberal PLP.

 

I'm also under fire for indicating that I won't vote for the Neolibs. Would you?

 

But look, I've already said previously that I concur he should stand down. So, we're all on the same page on that front if it helps.

[Rayvin 5572]

Fuck the people that the centre left would help. Fuck them in their arses.

 

Since they're the ones who are poised to vote Tory, tell me, what am I supposed to do about it? I'm voting for and have been a part of offering them the most left wing mainstream alternative they've had in years. If they reject that, what more am I supposed to do?

 

There are two possible outcomes here IMO. I'm either totally wrong about what people need, in which case my vote shouldn't be cast because actually, I'm probably doing more harm than good - or people will continue to reject what in their best interests until such a time as they wake the fuck up. They're actually more likely to do that under the Tories than they are under centre-left Labour - and as long as there's a proper left wing option there, I'm satisfied that they can make a choice.

 

EDIT - In response to your edit; I'm not smug about this - I'm frustrated. I'm doubting myself a fair bit on the grounds that I seem to be arguing in here with a lot of people whose opinions I respect. But I'm not feeling smug.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rayvin

[Renton 22403]

That is not all that is being said. Renton has attributed half of the blame for the current state of British politics to Corbyn. Which is absolutely absurd, and ignores all of the forces that got him to where he is. In fact, you article posted over the page that explains how he came to power actually reinforces this. Corbyn was almost an unwitting participant in what was, and I can't say this clearly enough, a rejection of the Neoliberal PLP.

 

I'm also under fire for indicating that I won't vote for the Neolibs. Would you?

 

But look, I've already said previously that I concur he should stand down. So, we're all on the same page on that front if it helps.

It's not absurd to blame the enabler as much if not more than the murderer. Corbyn is no different to other politicians, in fact he's worse than most. Given a sniff at leadership power, he's perfectly happy to wreck the party in order to maintain it. The man's a cunt.

[Rayvin 5572]

He literally had to be persuaded to stay in power last summer by those around him, but ok.

[Renton 22403]

He literally had to be persuaded to stay in power last summer by those around him, but ok.

He had to be persuaded? That sounds like he was fully aware of the implications of him staying then. Uber cunt.

[ewerk 31589]

Since they're the ones who are poised to vote Tory, tell me, what am I supposed to do about it? I'm voting for and have been a part of offering them the most left wing mainstream alternative they've had in years. If they reject that, what more am I supposed to do?

 

There are two possible outcomes here IMO. I'm either totally wrong about what people need, in which case my vote shouldn't be cast because actually, I'm probably doing more harm than good - or people will continue to reject what in their best interests until such a time as they wake the fuck up. They're actually more likely to do that under the Tories than they are under centre-left Labour - and as long as there's a proper left wing option there, I'm satisfied that they can make a choice.

 

EDIT - In response to your edit; I'm not smug about this - I'm frustrated. I'm doubting myself a fair bit on the grounds that I seem to be arguing in here with a lot of people whose opinions I respect. But I'm not feeling smug.

 

 

It's very simple. Are the Tories bigger cunts than Labour? If the answer is yes then vote for Labour. It mightn't be all you dreamed of but if they are in power then life will be better for a lot of people less fortunate than you.

[Rayvin 5572]

He had to be persuaded? That sounds like he was fully aware of the implications of him staying then. Uber cunt.

 

 

 

Well, fair enough. We are clearly not going to agree on this. 

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rayvin

[Park Life 71]

Since they're the ones who are poised to vote Tory, tell me, what am I supposed to do about it? I'm voting for and have been a part of offering them the most left wing mainstream alternative they've had in years. If they reject that, what more am I supposed to do?

 

There are two possible outcomes here IMO. I'm either totally wrong about what people need, in which case my vote shouldn't be cast because actually, I'm probably doing more harm than good - or people will continue to reject what in their best interests until such a time as they wake the fuck up. They're actually more likely to do that under the Tories than they are under centre-left Labour - and as long as there's a proper left wing option there, I'm satisfied that they can make a choice.

 

EDIT - In response to your edit; I'm not smug about this - I'm frustrated. I'm doubting myself a fair bit on the grounds that I seem to be arguing in here with a lot of people whose opinions I respect. But I'm not feeling smug.

The left of the center left of the Labour Party don't know how a mixed economy works and that is mainly because their ideals are unworkable within hostage Capitalism where the financial mural is international and the pressures on countries are global. Whilst Labour and finance are fluid and mobile across states and time zones you simply cannot build a truly left wing Govt. It is impossible. The art is in the compromise ie protecting as many as possible whilst dealing with the power of international finance and Globalisation realistically.

 

The left wing of the Labour party never discuss it honestly.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Park Life

[ewerk 31589]

 

Well, fair enough. We are clearly not going to agree on this. 

 

 

No. You seem to hate the poor, sick and vulnerable. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by ewerk