Rafa will he stay ? or will he go ?

[Leon 13]

Getting frustrated with the perception that Newcastle should have walked the league 

I don't think it's a case that we should have walked the league but we have a team which shouldn't be dropping points in games where we aren't being out played; the ones we don't turn up for and key players spend the game jogging rather than running or failing to complete basic passes.    Those lost points are the ones which should have had us further ahead than we are.

[The Fish 10849]

I don't think it's a case that we should have walked the league but we have a team which shouldn't be dropping points in games where we aren't being out played; the ones we don't turn up for and key players spend the game jogging rather than running or failing to complete basic passes.    Those lost points are the ones which should have had us further ahead than we are.

 

Literally every team on the planet can drop points even when they're dominant, every team leading their league can struggle with complacency.  

 

I think the expectation levels at Newcastle are daft; we're 1/50 to go up , we're on course for a 94pt season which has been enough to win the league in most years, we've more wins than anyone else in the league, we've the best attack and the best defence, we've 3 of the best players in the league and we've a manager with more trophies to his name than all but the elite clubs.

 

What exactly do they expect? Winning every game 3-0 and playing like 1970s Ajax? I understand being frustrated at individual incidents or results, but I cannot understand the pervading air of negativity given our circumstances.

 

Maybe the other fans are right, maybe Newcastle fans do have unrealistic expectations.

 

Honestly, the amount of times I've had to remind other Newcastle fans that we're top of the league is fucking embarrassing.

[Alex 35062]

I'd rather lose 4-3 than watch this turgid football like.

[Alex 35062]

[Kitman 2204]

Literally every team on the planet can drop points even when they're dominant, every team leading their league can struggle with complacency.

 

I think the expectation levels at Newcastle are daft; we're 1/50 to go up , we're on course for a 94pt season which has been enough to win the league in most years, we've more wins than anyone else in the league, we've the best attack and the best defence, we've 3 of the best players in the league and we've a manager with more trophies to his name than all but the elite clubs.

 

What exactly do they expect? Winning every game 3-0 and playing like 1970s Ajax? I understand being frustrated at individual incidents or results, but I cannot understand the pervading air of negativity given our circumstances.

 

Maybe the other fans are right, maybe Newcastle fans do have unrealistic expectations.

 

Honestly, the amount of times I've had to remind other Newcastle fans that we're top of the league is fucking embarrassing.

Well said, sir

[Ayatollah Hermione 13859]

I don't think it's a case that we should have walked the league but we have a team which shouldn't be dropping points in games where we aren't being out played; the ones we don't turn up for and key players spend the game jogging rather than running or failing to complete basic passes. Those lost points are the ones which should have had us further ahead than we are.

With this tbh. I was at Blackburn away and they were a team that should have been dispatched fairly comfortably and we didn't manage it. There's a huge amount of middle ground between saying everyone wants 70s Brazil and recognising that there's been times this season where we just haven't been good enough and it's fine to get frustrated at that. You start ignoring the poorer aspects of our game for too long and you end up predicting that we won't get relegated when we're staring the barrel in the face.

 

Having said that, the team did have a lot of new faces compared to a settled Brighton and Rafa's ability to get them gelling and playing quickly will reap dividends when he has to do it all again next season, considering that 70% of these players are blatantly not good enough to withstand the abilities of some Prem teams.

 

All along for me, it's never been about Rafa and his ability, it's been about the fact that the players, as it stands, weren't all his first choice. I reckon Gayle, Ritchie, Hayden, Gamez and Clark were up there (with Sels being a Graham Carr special). Atsu came in late but has been a canny signing and Lazarr might as well not be here. The Premier League means we'll hopefully see us being able to attract the signings he wants but if there's a similar case, I only seeing us getting more attritional, lend more heavily on organisation and set plays to break teams down because we'll have to if we want to stay up. I'm not looking forward to this all starting again when people are expecting us to Keegan the Prem once more.

 

I think a lot of this frustration comes from the idea that Ashley will do something ridiculous if we don't finish top. It's not coincidence that the upswell of good feeling started to ripple away when that useless cunt started shoving his chip shovels into everything again.

 

Think I lost my point halfway through since I'm on my phone but there are some valid complaints about the way we've played this season IMO. I think we've always been set up well enough but a lot of these players are one-dimensional, slow and in some cases, thick as pig shit

[trooper 940]

It's the fear of the unknown at the minute did his fingers get warmed up in January or were they blistered. I said on my OP the question needs asking sooner rather than later. It's no good getting half way through the summer break with Rafa's transfer list in tatters & he decides "it is no good". I hope Ashley sees sense & backs Rafa because with him in charge with his team we have a chance for success. But if Ashley doesn't back him & Rafa sods of dog help us.

[Rayvin 5217]

Literally every team on the planet can drop points even when they're dominant, every team leading their league can struggle with complacency.  

 

I think the expectation levels at Newcastle are daft; we're 1/50 to go up , we're on course for a 94pt season which has been enough to win the league in most years, we've more wins than anyone else in the league, we've the best attack and the best defence, we've 3 of the best players in the league and we've a manager with more trophies to his name than all but the elite clubs.

 

What exactly do they expect? Winning every game 3-0 and playing like 1970s Ajax? I understand being frustrated at individual incidents or results, but I cannot understand the pervading air of negativity given our circumstances.

 

Maybe the other fans are right, maybe Newcastle fans do have unrealistic expectations.

 

Honestly, the amount of times I've had to remind other Newcastle fans that we're top of the league is fucking embarrassing.

 

 

To play devil's advocate, I suspect that a lot of people just really want us to go up, and are really concerned by how close it is. People deal with pressure in different ways and the emotional response to this is probably clouding people's rationality.

 

They would presumably argue that while yes, we're in a good position, we're also in a poor run of form - and the top of the table is really tight. To be honest, I didn't expect us to still be top at the weekend after failing to beat Birmingham. We are, but that's not because we're playing really well at the moment, it's because Huddersfield and Brighton are struggling for form as well as us.

 

No one should be going on at Rafa or complaining generally given how the season is going, but I think a nervy finish isn't helping. Had we entered into this run of poor form and we were 10 points clear, I don't think it'd be bothering people very much.

[ewerk 30557]

To play devil's advocate, I suspect that a lot of people just really want us to go up, and are really concerned by how close it is. People deal with pressure in different ways and the emotional response to this is probably clouding people's rationality.

 

They would presumably argue that while yes, we're in a good position, we're also in a poor run of form - and the top of the table is really tight. To be honest, I didn't expect us to still be top at the weekend after failing to beat Birmingham. We are, but that's not because we're playing really well at the moment, it's because Huddersfield and Brighton are struggling for form as well as us.

 

No one should be going on at Rafa or complaining generally given how the season is going, but I think a nervy finish isn't helping. Had we entered into this run of poor form and we were 10 points clear, I don't think it'd be bothering people very much.

 

 

We're effectively eight points clear of third (with GD). We're second in the form table over the last ten matches. And we're top of the table.

 

People need to chill the fuck out.

[trooper 940]

If for some reason we didn't go up it'd be nothing short of a disaster & again the same question would be asked about Rafa. Does he stay ? Or does he go ?

[The Fish 10849]

To play devil's advocate, I suspect that a lot of people just really want us to go up, and are really concerned by how close it is. People deal with pressure in different ways and the emotional response to this is probably clouding people's rationality.

 

They would presumably argue that while yes, we're in a good position, we're also in a poor run of form - and the top of the table is really tight. To be honest, I didn't expect us to still be top at the weekend after failing to beat Birmingham. We are, but that's not because we're playing really well at the moment, it's because Huddersfield and Brighton are struggling for form as well as us.

 

No one should be going on at Rafa or complaining generally given how the season is going, but I think a nervy finish isn't helping. Had we entered into this run of poor form and we were 10 points clear, I don't think it'd be bothering people very much.

 

Do you think people have forgotten that we don't need​ to win the league and can finish 2nd and go up?

 

At the beginning of this "wobble" we were 2nd, a point behind Brighton and 5 ahead of Huddersfield. Now we're 1pt and 8 goals ahead of Brighton, and 7pts and 34 goals ahead of 3rd placed Huddersfield. Huddersfield were 4 points clear of Leeds, now 1 weekend of fixtures could have them leapfrogged by Reading and Leeds! 

 

Maybe I'm arrogant, but we're clearly good enough to have a bad run of form and actually improve our position in the league.

[Rayvin 5217]

Do you think people have forgotten that we don't need​ to win the league and can finish 2nd and go up?

 

At the beginning of this "wobble" we were 2nd, a point behind Brighton and 5 ahead of Huddersfield. Now we're 1pt and 8 goals ahead of Brighton, and 7pts and 34 goals ahead of 3rd placed Huddersfield. Huddersfield were 4 points clear of Leeds, now 1 weekend of fixtures could have them leapfrogged by Reading and Leeds! 

 

Maybe I'm arrogant, but we're clearly good enough to have a bad run of form and actually improve our position in the league.

 

We clearly are good enough to do that, yes. But we are also being quite fortunate with results going in our favour elsewhere. Huddersfield losing 4-0 to Bristol was not something I expected. Brighton's loss was more predictable but even so, if we accept that Leeds 'should' have beaten them, we must accept that they 'should' also give us a game.

 

I think if it was just us and Brighton clear at the top no one would care. It's definitely Huddersfield that have people worried - though I do take your point that they're not exactly capitalising on our wobble.

[The Fish 10849]

If for some reason we didn't go up it'd be nothing short of a disaster & again the same question would be asked about Rafa. Does he stay ? Or does he go ?

 

I mean, why even suggest this scenario?

 

Saw this on another Messageboard

 

 

 

The last 3 years I've done a Championship Table Ladder showing some milestones for past Championship seasons. I'll do the same again this year and try my best to update each week, was a bit shit at updating it last year.

Below is a historic record of points totals needed to achieve certain targets (Champions, Playoffs, Survive Relegation etc) along with the current standings of each team this year. (04-05 to 15-16 seasons used for averages and totals).

 

(This won't always show a true representation as some teams will have played more than others)

 

106 - Highest Champions Points Total

105

104

103

102

101

100

99

98

97

96

95

94

93 - Highest 2nd Place Points Total (i.e. not Champions)

92 - Average Needed for Champions

91

90

89 - Highest 3rd Place Points Total (i.e.not Auto Promoted)

88

87 - Average Needed For Promotion

86

85

84

83

82

81 - Lowest Champions Points Total

80

79 - Lowest Automatic Promotion Total

78 - ​Newcastle Highest 7th Place Points Total (i.e not making Play-offs)

77 - ​Brighton

76

75

74

73 - Average Needed for Play-Offs

72

71.... ​Huddersfield

70

69.... ​Leeds

68 - Lowest Play-off Position Total

67.... ​Reading

66

65

64

63

62.... ​Sheffield Wednesday Average Needed for Top Half

61.... ​Fulham

60

59

58

57.... ​Norwich, Preston

56

55

54 - Highest Points Still Relegated 

53.... ​Derby

52

51.... Barnsely, Aston Villa, Cardiff

50.... ​Brentford, QPR

49.... Average Needed for Survival

48

47

46

45.... Wolves, Ipswich, Birmingham

44 - Lowest Points Total Survived

43

42

41.... ​Bristol, Forest, Burton

40.... ​Blackburn

39

38

37

36

35

34.... Wigan

33

32

31

30

29

28

27

26

25

24

23

22

21

20

19

18

17.....Rotherham

 

Key:

Blue - Champions

Green - 2nd Place

Purple - Playoffs

Orange - Top Half

Red - Relegation

 

 

So, people need to chill.

[Alex 35062]

I take some comfort in the fact Huddersfield went on an incredible run and they're still 7 points behind us (alebit with a game in hand but with a massively inferior goal difference).

[Dr Gloom 21912]

the title is in our hands with 8 games to go. i know whose shoes i'd rather be in right now. 

[Howmanheyman 33129]

Literally every team on the planet can drop points even when they're dominant, every team leading their league can struggle with complacency.

 

I think the expectation levels at Newcastle are daft; we're 1/50 to go up , we're on course for a 94pt season which has been enough to win the league in most years, we've more wins than anyone else in the league, we've the best attack and the best defence, we've 3 of the best players in the league and we've a manager with more trophies to his name than all but the elite clubs.

 

What exactly do they expect? Winning every game 3-0 and playing like 1970s Ajax? I understand being frustrated at individual incidents or results, but I cannot understand the pervading air of negativity given our circumstances.

 

Maybe the other fans are right, maybe Newcastle fans do have unrealistic expectations.

 

Honestly, the amount of times I've had to remind other Newcastle fans that we're top of the league is fucking embarrassing.

Newcastle fans don't all think as one so that's patent bollocks.

[trooper 940]

'@ the fish I suggested the scenario because it's still a mathematical possibility. We have 8 games left but 5 of them are home games Shirley you can see why it could still happen just trying to be realistic.

[Alex 35062]

Newcastle fans don't all think as one so that's patent bollocks.

Half think we should piss the league while the other half piss the bed

[The Fish 10849]

We clearly are good enough to do that, yes. But we are also being quite fortunate with results going in our favour elsewhere. Huddersfield losing 4-0 to Bristol was not something I expected. Brighton's loss was more predictable but even so, if we accept that Leeds 'should' have beaten them, we must accept that they 'should' also give us a game.

 

I think if it was just us and Brighton clear at the top no one would care. It's definitely Huddersfield that have people worried - though I do take your point that they're not exactly capitalising on our wobble.

 

I agree that if Huddersfield were further adrift (although 8 points + ridiculous GD is pretty adrift imo) there'd be less people worrying, but that's because the worriers are daft. Aside from beating the title challengers when we meet them, there's nothing Newcastle United can do to affect the results of other sides.

 

I've briefly looked back at this period of the Championship season and Huddersfield's PpG would have them in the Auto spots 8 season out of 10. Only once in that 10 season period has the average PpG for the top three bettered this season's. That was 2014 when Leicester were already on 82pts, Burnley were on 79 and 3rd was way back on 69 (wahey).

[The Fish 10849]

Newcastle fans don't all think as one so that's patent bollocks.

 

They don't, but there's enough mithering to make you think there's a decent number who think alike. 'We're not playing pretty football, we're not pissing the league, it's already March and we're not mathematically assured of promotion yet!'

 

[Rayvin 5217]

I agree that if Huddersfield were further adrift (although 8 points + ridiculous GD is pretty adrift imo) there'd be less people worrying, but that's because the worriers are daft. Aside from beating the title challengers when we meet them, there's nothing Newcastle United can do to affect the results of other sides.

 

I've briefly looked back at this period of the Championship season and Huddersfield's PpG would have them in the Auto spots 8 season out of 10. Only once in that 10 season period has the average PpG for the top three bettered this season's. That was 2014 when Leicester were already on 82pts, Burnley were on 79 and 3rd was way back on 69 (wahey).

 

There's nothing we can do about their games no - but we can win ours, and at the minute we're dropping easy points. To be quite honest, had we managed to beat Bristol and Birmingham, we'd be absolutely untouchable by now. We didn't fail to beat them because they have better sides than we do, which suggests that the underlying reason is more likely complacency or struggling under pressure.

 

Both of those two things would be a worry in a tight run in - which is what we're lining up for. I'd suggest it's more likely to be complacency than anything else given how we despatched both Brighton and Huddersfield, and that's the scenario in which you'd expect fans to get angry.

[The Fish 10849]

'@ the fish I suggested the scenario because it's still a mathematical possibility. We have 8 games left but 5 of them are home games Shirley you can see why it could still happen just trying to be realistic.

 

We could lose every games and miss out on a play-off spot, we could win every remaining game and break Reading's record.

 

These are possibilities, but not probable, so why bother worrying about them?

[The Fish 10849]

There's nothing we can do about their games no - but we can win ours, and at the minute we're dropping easy points. To be quite honest, had we managed to beat Bristol and Birmingham, we'd be absolutely untouchable by now. We didn't fail to beat them because they have better sides than we do, which suggests that the underlying reason is more likely complacency or struggling under pressure.

 

Both of those two things would be a worry in a tight run in - which is what we're lining up for. I'd suggest it's more likely to be complacency than anything else given how we despatched both Brighton and Huddersfield, and that's the scenario in which you'd expect fans to get angry.

 

And missing 1st choice players in key positions.

 

Look, I'm not pretending we're playing brilliant football, or arguing that you shouldn't be allowed to criticise poor performances/results, but I am baffled at the air of negativity. We're top of the league, we've scored loads, conceded few, we're playing effective disciplined solid football (just as we did under Hughton) and when everyone is fit and firing we can play some really nice stuff too.

[Rayvin 5217]

I'm just saying it's because people are nervous - because this isn't straightforward, we're dropping points at the moment, and other teams are quite close to us. If Huddersfield had beaten Bristol and, as we assume they will, won their game in hand - wouldn't that change the complexion of things a bit?

 

Finer margins at play than some are prepared to admit here. And while yes, I think we're odds on for a fairly comfortable promotion (and probably also the league), it's going to be partially down to huddersfield dropping off at the same time as us, not our invincibility.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Rayvin

[Leon 13]

 

 

What exactly do they expect? Winning every game 3-0 and playing like 1970s Ajax? I understand being frustrated at individual incidents or results, but I cannot understand the pervading air of negativity given our circumstances.

 

 

I think you have misinterpreted what I was getting at.   We are a team of two games.  One we turn up and play and sometimes get outplayed and only manage a draw; other games we don't even turn up with our midfield failing to make passes for what seems like the whole of the 90 minutes.   I'm confident that we'll be going up but we have huge holes in our performance which has nothing to do with the teams we're playing and more around individual performance.