President Biden

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

[Rayvin 5223]

Obama's list has been widely reported.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38798588

 

No facts are being hidden. But Obama did nothing like this.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-administration-did-nothing-similar-to-your-immigration-ban/amp/?client=safari

 

Do you genuinely believe there is a media campaign to withhold or distort facts to make Trump look bad? He's doing a perfectly good job at that himself - he doesn't need any help there

 

Conparing Obama's move in 2011 to this Is apples and oranges. And the flow of refugees was never halted. We are discussing the fact people with a legal right to live and work in the US have seen their status change overnight because nothing like this has happened in recent times.

 

And whether it was drawn up from Obama's list is besides the point - this is about vetting potential terrorists, right? So why weren't Saudi Arabia and other predominantly Muslim countries where some of the 9/11 hijackers not included on the list of targeted countries? Is the media not right to report on that?

 

That first link was published 3 hours ago. The furore has now gone on for 3 fucking days. If the BBC have known that for 3 days, why are they reporting it now?

 

This isn't comparing it to Obama in 2011, I know that's different. I'm not even comparing him to Obama - I'm not questioning that this whole situation is morally ridiculous. I'm saying that the media knew where the list of countries had come from, and spread misinformation instead. They didn't report it, instead choosing to go for 'Trump is a racist and this is Islamophobia gone mad' despite knowing that he was working to a list drawn up by the previous administration.

 

Why weren't Saudi and other predominantly Muslim countries not included on Obama's fucking list? You tell me. Since that list and Trump's action are both aimed at the same thing, it's a fully pertinent question. Why didn't the media ask Obama that when he drew it up? This is why I have a hard fucking time trusting them man. Agendas and fucking narratives.

 

EDIT - just to add - if you were an incoming administration, wouldn't you form such a policy based on intelligence left behind by the previous administration? That's an entirely sane thing to do. If Saudi isn't on that list, it's squarely on Obama.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Obama didn't ban people from those countries entering the US! Thats the difference. That's also the current narrative, and it's a pretty fucking huge one, which is why it's being reported. And of course it's racist. It's a slightly watered down version of the total shutdown of Muslims entering the country he promised on the campaign trail.

[Rayvin 5223]

Obama didn't ban people from those countries entering the US! Thats the difference. That's also the current narrative, and it's a pretty fucking huge one, which is why it's being reported. And of course it's racist. It's a slightly watered down version of the total shutdown of Muslims entering the country he promised on the campaign trail.

 

No he didn't but he did CHOOSE the countries on that list. If Trump worked to that list, and the selection was racist, then the list was racist. The policy is fucked up but that's different.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rayvin

[Renton 21627]

That first link was published 3 hours ago. The furore has now gone on for 3 fucking days. If the BBC have known that for 3 days, why are they reporting it now?

 

This isn't comparing it to Obama in 2011, I know that's different. I'm not even comparing him to Obama - I'm not questioning that this whole situation is morally ridiculous. I'm saying that the media knew where the list of countries had come from, and spread misinformation instead. They didn't report it, instead choosing to go for 'Trump is a racist and this is Islamophobia gone mad' despite knowing that he was working to a list drawn up by the previous administration.

 

Why weren't Saudi and other predominantly Muslim countries not included on Obama's fucking list? You tell me. Since that list and Trump's action are both aimed at the same thing, it's a fully pertinent question. Why didn't the media ask Obama that when he drew it up? This is why I have a hard fucking time trusting them man. Agendas and fucking narratives.

I knew about the Obama list yesterday. Don't even recall how I knew but since I only use what you term MSM it must have been from one of those outlets. Your nit picking trying to suggest Trump is the victim of a conspiracy is ludicrous and plays right into his hands. Exactly what he wants.

[Rayvin 5223]

I knew about the Obama list yesterday. Don't even recall how I knew but since I only use what you term MSM it must have been from one of those outlets. Your nit picking trying to suggest Trump is the victim of a conspiracy is ludicrous and plays right into his hands. Exactly what he wants.

 

Well then that's great and exactly what I wanted to hear. I'd appreciate a link if it's possible but am happy to take you at your word (even though it's still two days after the fact). I googled the same information before getting worked up about this earlier and found nothing. Anywhere. Only in blogs by random political commentators dotted around here and there. Nothing in the MSM. Maybe it was pushed down by other news, who knows.

 

And actually, it still doesn't answer the question about why Trump is getting grief for sticking to a list that Obama wrote up, does it? He should be and is getting grief about the severity of the action - but actually, most of the grief is about who it targets. At least in my view. And who it targets, is the people Obama felt were the biggest threats.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rayvin

[Meenzer 15544]

He should be and is getting grief about the severity of the action - but actually, most of the grief is about who it targets.

 

It's definitely both like. They're not especially separable.

[Renton 21627]

Well then that's great and exactly what I wanted to hear. I'd appreciate a link if it's possible but am happy to take you at your word (even though it's still two days after the fact). I googled the same information before getting worked up about this earlier and found nothing. Anywhere. Only in blogs by random political commentators dotted around here and there. Nothing in the MSM. Maybe it was pushed down by other news, who knows.

 

And actually, it still doesn't answer the question about why Trump is getting grief for sticking to a list that Obama wrote up, does it? He should be and is getting grief about the severity of the action - but actually, most of the grief is about who it targets. At least in my view. And who it targets, is the people Obama felt were the biggest threats.

He's getting stick because he's using the lIst to selectively target muslims ffs. It's got absolutely fuck all to do with national security and everything to do with inflaming hatred and bigotry. The source of the list is irrelevant. Trump's motives are fucking obvious to all but the most blinkered and it looks like has got you duped.

[Rayvin 5223]

He's getting stick because he's using the lIst to selectively target muslims ffs. It's got absolutely fuck all to do with national security and everything to do with inflaming hatred and bigotry. The source of the list is irrelevant. Trump's motives are fucking obvious to all but the most blinkered and it looks like has got you duped.

 

Or I condemn Obama as much. Based on my history of views, which do you think is more likely?

 

And again, my issue here is that the press are willfully ignoring Obama's role in this.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

There is no MSM agenda man. Look at what has just happened. The world is rightly up in arms. Everything has changed and its little to do with the media. Obama wasn't perfect but Jesus wept man, move on, and give him some credit - he isn't responsible for trump.

[Rayvin 5223]

Fine, I'll reign it in for now. But to say I'm deeply mistrustful is an understatement...

 

I'll wait for other things to come up and then ask you about them. Maybe either I'll be converted to your line of thought, or I'll prove to myself that I'm right.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Rein.

 

Sorry. The sub editor in me

[Rayvin 5223]

Absolutely fair. My spelling has been all over the place today, really not sure why.

[Park Life 71]

Rainman.

[Andrew 4770]

Absolutely fair. My spelling has been all over the place today, really not sure why.

 

Your fingers don't truly believe what you are making them type.

[Park Life 71]

Obama and Trump don't draw up these lists you know.

[ewerk 30620]

[Renton 21627]

Your fingers don't truly believe what you are making them type.

 

This is highly plausible to me.

[Renton 21627]

https://twitter.com/AndreaWoo/status/826145871511351297

Didn't Obama use Twitter first?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Rainman.

Did you read this then or what?

 

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tk9bd8ad7

[Happy Face 29]

 

 

[Park Life 71]

Did you read this then or what?

 

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tk9bd8ad7

They are cleaning the decks because they deem that much of the embedded legacy bureaucracy will be working against them. The Trump camp will be under siege for some months (and paranoid) until they can work out who is who and trust issues and so on..

 

This isn't a normal handover as you know. Much of the deep state will be against Trump (not on the immigration issues) but as far as foreign policy, trade deals and reconfiguration of the posture of America which is happening 'on the hoof'. Trump with no experience will be taking advice on nearly everything and it is a steep learning curve.  Part of the reason he picked so many nutters is that they will have to stand up to the insiders as time goes on if real policy changes are to me made (campaign promises with reg to trade deals and no more wars and reducing unemployment).

 

The immigration thing is a marquee issue and by no means will it be the scene of the first serious battle against the Globalists and their henchmen within the Corporate world. Unpicking or re-balancing the trade deals will be the site of the first real engagement.

 

Not mentioning the Jews specifically is a silly stand to make with reg to the other matter and I can't imagine what is gained by that.

 

Trump and his battle group understand they are under fire. But the real power has yet to show its hand (perhaps he might be of some use after all).

 

America has been slipping into a police state since 9/11 and the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security apparatus.

 

This is a defining moment in the history of the world.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21924]

It's a terrifying moment in the history of the world. Are you not troubled by what this loonie represents and where the world is headed with him calling the shots.

 

PS Not mentioning the Jews when discussing the holocaust is what holocaust deniers do.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

If Trump is treating America like a company they are fucked because he has made a fair few of those go bankrupt, even a casino ffs

[Park Life 71]

It's a terrifying moment in the history of the world. Are you not troubled by what this loonie represents and where the world is headed with him calling the shots.

 

PS Not mentioning the Jews when discussing the holocaust is what holocaust deniers do.

I was more terrified about going to war with Russia over Syria. The only thing that stopped that was a vote in our Parliament which diminished the American appetite - remember Obama was talking 'red lines' at the time.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Park Life