The Fish 10686 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 tl;dr democracy would be great if it wasn't for the people. Churchill said it better than me, but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) No, I'm not saying they consider something unfair and support it anyway, I'm saying they don't consider it. They frankly don't give a shit that the overwhelming majority of muslims are not bomb wielding lunatics, they couldn't give a shit that foreign aid can actually provide jobs and customers for domestic companies, they couldn't give a shit about a whole heap of stuff. Certainly not enough to learn more than what the commercial news station that pushes their political party's agenda is telling them. Generally the voting public are wilfully ignorant, reactionary arseholes and shouldn't decide what happens to a country any more than the weaselling dickheads they vote into power to represent them. Ah but when you start saying that (and I agree with you) then your faith in the whole establishment has to go. You're basically saying democracy doesn't work as it should do and isn't a good method of governance. Which is true, although I concede that it remains perhaps the least bad of all political options - with the exception of a well executed benevolent dictatorship. EDIT - as Meenz says Edited January 26, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 torture mother fucker, torture. i'll fucking ... sew your asshole closed and keep feeding you and feeding you and feeding you.... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-tells-abc-news-david-muir-absolutely/story?id=45045055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10686 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Ah but when you start saying that (and I agree with you) then your faith in the whole establishment has to go. You're basically saying democracy doesn't work as it should do and isn't a good solution of governance. Which is true, although I concede that it remains perhaps the least bad of all political options - with the exception of a well executed benevolent dictatorship. EDIT - as Meenz says Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others. I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't. I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes. Drives me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 does waterboarding work? trump - "absolutely it works" he has a point. it's a pretty much guaranteed way to extract a confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others. I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't. I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes. Drives me mad. I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others. I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't. I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes. Drives me mad. Democracy doesn't fail because people vote the wrong way. It fails because it quickly becomes a stagnat pool of self interested elitists that stifle debates to a very narrow received wisdom, and work for the richest in society rather than the poorest. ...a bit like communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34792 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Does Fish have a lass then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10686 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Does Fish have a lass then? fuck off man, she's real and everything. Martin's met her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 it's one of this board's great unanswered questions, along with: what is j69's profession? has gemmill ever moved house? and how does CT maintain a 32" waist on a duck pizza and margarine diet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10686 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%. Or people had to vote for policies, unaware of the party that has submitted them. Democracy doesn't fail because people vote the wrong way. It fails because it quickly becomes a stagnat pool of self interested elitists that stifle debates to a very narrow received wisdom, and work for the richest in society rather than the poorest. ...a bit like communism. If the populous had the wherewithal to see through that obvious obfuscation that pool wouldn't be permitted to stagnate as often or as quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4366 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%.Yes but I'd worry about "affect you". As I've said before there should be an element of voting for what you think is the greater good beyond your individual lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Or people had to vote for policies, unaware of the party that has submitted them. Analysis has been done on this (and I've lamented it previously). If the public are offered policies, the Greens end up in power. At least in this country. The Tories are a distant third or fourth, I think. Yes but I'd worry about "affect you". As I've said before there should be an element of voting for what you think is the greater good beyond your individual lot. Well yes but with that comment I was broadly speaking about the people who vote against their own interests out of ignorance. I would still expect the socially conscious to vote against their own interests out of altruism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 one for @@Happy Face [tweet] [/tweet] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 If the populous had the wherewithal to see through that obvious obfuscation that pool wouldn't be permitted to stagnate as often or as quickly. I think the hardest hit do have the wherewithall. Many that wouldn't pass a policy test if they had to take it before voting still know well enough that they've had fuck all to cheer in decades and they've turned to Corbyn, Trump, Sanders, Farage, Brexit etc in response to that. Anything but what we have. It's the entrenched political class who seem disgusted by these upstart movements. The educated classes seem to think it will be catastrophic and we MUST stick with the status quo so that everyone doesn't end up in the bottom of the barrel with the have nots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 one for @@Happy Face [tweet] [/tweet] Ungrateful for being locked up and tortured most of her adult life. I'm impresssed he actually used her chosen name. Would have expected him to take the politically incorrect approach of sticking with Bradley. That's how low the bar is for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think the hardest hit do have the wherewithall. Many that wouldn't pass a policy test if they had to take it before voting still know well enough that they've had fuck all to cheer in decades and they've turned to Corbyn, Trump, Sanders, Farage, Brexit etc in response to that. Anything but what we have. It's the entrenched political class who seem disgusted by these upstart movements. The educated classes seem to think it will be catastrophic and we MUST stick with the status quo so that everyone doesn't end up in the bottom of the barrel with the have nots. Well said. I do love your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Ungrateful for being locked up and tortured most of her adult life. I'm impresssed he actually used her chosen name. Would have expected him to take the politically incorrect approach of sticking with Bradley. That's how low the bar is for Trump. Terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Well said. I do love your posts. get a room, you sycophant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I'm not the one who was at the Davos meeting last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 holding the global elite to account! hacks are quite a way down the food chain there, as you can imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I suppose it does need reporting on. I hope you made the most of the free caviar and champagne that was no doubt on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21802 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 you should have seen the state of the food in the media centre man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Mr Trump [who said waterboarding works] also said he would consult Defence Secretary James Mattis and CIA director Mike Pompeo and "if they don't want to do it that's fine". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000 Not very presidential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5165 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I noticed McCain has come out and said he'll vote against the introduction of torture. It might not get through Senate, that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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