Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 “Stand back, stand by” Get the popcorn out lads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42460 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 The only real winners of this election will be the tin foil manufacturers, as the various “truths” will be rolled out via YouTube. What a time to be alive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Arizona for Biden has to be the first genuinely positive sign that we are heading back to something positive here...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21636 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I think this is just the "red mirage" that was widely predicted. Trump's behaviour makes me think he knows he has lost. I have faith the Supreme Court will not back him on stopping the mail count. If they do its going to be a civil war in the US. Feeling cautiously optimistic that staes such as Wisconsin and Michigan will be comfortable for Biden. Less sure about Pennsylvania, some right wierdos there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9445 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Renton said: I think this is just the "red mirage" that was widely predicted. Trump's behaviour makes me think he knows he has lost. I have faith the Supreme Court will not back him on stopping the mail count. If they do its going to be a civil war in the US. Feeling cautiously optimistic that staes such as Wisconsin and Michigan will be comfortable for Biden. Less sure about Pennsylvania, some right wierdos there. I follow a Dr on Twitter who is from Pa. he reckons it's looking good for Biden, Governor is a Dem and very highly thought of evidently, loads of postal votes not counted (~60%) mainly in known Dem counties Edit, either way it's closer than it needed to be to avoid a shit show Edited November 4, 2020 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 If it is a 'red mirage' it's a damn convincing one. I just looked at PA and trump is 600k ahead with only 2.5m votes left to count. I mean it's possible for sure but it's going to be a case of squeaking over the line rather than crashing through it. Wisconsin also not filling me with optimism, 94% votes counted and Trump 100k up. That's legitimately in "could go either way" territory. Agree that Trump is making all the noises to indicate defeat but this is nowhere near as convincing as it should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15552 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ant said: which opens the door i'd assume for some long drawn out farce This was the one bet I'd have been happy to place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: If it is a 'red mirage' it's a damn convincing one. I just looked at PA and trump is 600k ahead with only 2.5m votes left to count. I mean it's possible for sure but it's going to be a case of squeaking over the line rather than crashing through it. Wisconsin also not filling me with optimism, 94% votes counted and Trump 100k up. That's legitimately in "could go either way" territory. Agree that Trump is making all the noises to indicate defeat but this is nowhere near as convincing as it should have been. It was always going to be close, tbf. Trump has the incumbent’s advantage, which is huge over there. Most presidents survive a second term. He’d be walking it if it wasn’t for covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10858 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I still don't fully understand the logic behind Electoral College? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, The Fish said: I still don't fully understand the logic behind Electoral College? It's an anachronism IMO. It gives weighting to rural states that their populations don't justify to ensure that the interests of farmers weren't overlooked back in the day when farming mattered more. It's the same shit that happens here really. The Tories get an 80 seat majority through the capture of rural, underpopulated constituencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10858 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: It's an anachronism IMO. It gives weighting to rural states that their populations don't justify to ensure that the interests of farmers weren't overlooked back in the day when farming mattered more. It's the same shit that happens here really. The Tories get an 80 seat majority through the capture of rural, underpopulated constituencies. But because it benefits Republicans they're not going to change it and will successfully paint any proposed replacement as elitism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21636 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) Watch that Netflix documentary mini-series I recommended. Whose Vote Counts. Explains it perfectly. Edited November 4, 2020 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42460 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Fish said: I still don't fully understand the logic behind Electoral College? Had a quick look on wiki which suggests a large part of its adoption was related to the enslaved population in the south having no vote. Also found this gem, from Alexander Hamilton ”Hamilton was also concerned about somebody unqualified but with a talent for "low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity" attaining high office” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Fish said: I still don't fully understand the logic behind Electoral College? It’s basically FPTP with bigger constituencies. Neither are fit for purpose anymore imo. Edit: except the constituencies are different sizes and weighted accordingly of course. Edited November 4, 2020 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Yeah - Hillary lost the electoral college with almost 3m more votes last time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Fish said: But because it benefits Republicans they're not going to change it and will successfully paint any proposed replacement as elitism? There probably is an argument to say that avoiding cities dominating everything entirely is worth pursuing, but the extent to which the EC favours republicans is depressing. That said, on this occasion, I'm not sure it's really the issue - the votes (at least so far) look pretty much neck in neck. Can't blame this one on EC I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I did worry that, like last time round, the Democrats had somehow managed to put forward a candidate capable of losing to Trump. Whatever happens it’s a lot closer than it probably should’ve been given the backdrop. You have to think a lot of that is down to Biden being so uninspiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 squeaky bum time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Alex said: I did worry that, like last time round, the Democrats had somehow managed to put forward a candidate capable of losing to Trump. Whatever happens it’s a lot closer than it probably should’ve been given the backdrop. You have to think a lot of that is down to Biden being so uninspiring I think so. I know Renton finds it objectionable but I really, really believe that no matter the political stripe of a candidate, people are looking for vision. Biden and Hillary offered none of that. Biden 2020 would have lost to trump in 2016 too, I'm pretty certain of that. The only reason he'll win this (I really hope he wins this) is that people have been able to see how dangerous Trump actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21636 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: There probably is an argument to say that avoiding cities dominating everything entirely is worth pursuing, but the extent to which the EC favours republicans is depressing. That said, on this occasion, I'm not sure it's really the issue - the votes (at least so far) look pretty much neck in neck. Can't blame this one on EC I don't think. Well there's huge useless with gerrymandering and voter suppression to contend with too. The system is massively rigged to favour the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10858 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Rayvin said: There probably is an argument to say that avoiding cities dominating everything entirely is worth pursuing, but the extent to which the EC favours republicans is depressing. That said, on this occasion, I'm not sure it's really the issue - the votes (at least so far) look pretty much neck in neck. Can't blame this one on EC I don't think. Democrats don't seem to have learned that it's not about policy, it's personality now. They needed an Obama, someone that would excite the base and be palatable to the others. Instead they've gone for Boring Biden. Democracy has jumped the shark now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21947 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: I think so. I know Renton finds it objectionable but I really, really believe that no matter the political stripe of a candidate, people are looking for vision. Biden and Hillary offered none of that. Biden 2020 would have lost to trump in 2016 too, I'm pretty certain of that. The only reason he'll win this (I really hope he wins this) is that people have been able to see how dangerous Trump actually is. if you take covid out of the picture, trump hammers biden. and i'm afraid to say he hammers warren and sanders too. america doesn't want their vision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 With Nevada, Biden needs two of the last five whereas Trump needs four. Wisconsin is looking good for Biden so Michigan or Georgia would do it. I hope this happens as if it comes down to Penn the legal shit will get very messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Just now, Dr Gloom said: if you take covid out of the picture, trump hammers biden. and i'm afraid to say he hammers warren and sanders too. america doesn't want their vision. Yet the Fox exit polls suggest majority support for decent policies. It's like the UK where "values" are becoming king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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