Dr Gloom 21813 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 the police over there really don't seem to give a shit that every fucked-up thing they're doing is caught on camera phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11309 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32728 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Meenzer said: We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say That song minus the Yedlin bit came into my head the other day, glad I'm not the only lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, Tom said: I hate Caitlin Moran. Why’s that? I know she writes for The Times now (or did). Can’t say I’ve paid much attention to her though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said: the police over there really don't seem to give a shit that every fucked-up thing they're doing is caught on camera phone If you think that any more than a fraction of their abuse is being captured then I have a bridge to sell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13794 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Fair play to Yedlin for speaking out. He’s still shit though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I see a number of areas in the USA have banned police from using restraint by neck. Because that’s the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 That Breonna Taylor story that has come to prominence due to George Floyd’s death is fucking horrific too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in. Edited June 7, 2020 by ewerk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42066 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Women drivers eh, what are they like? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21813 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, ewerk said: As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in. It is a dramatic photo fit for the front page. I agree about the line but if I were picture editing, I’d be tempted to run that snap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 What's interesting about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42066 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Presumably that more white people have been shot than black people, which conveniently misses the next bit. “Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21308 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 76.5% of the US population is white. 13.4% is black of African descent. So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. About what I expected, why is this interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21308 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13th on Netflix is a good polemic exposing some of the issues the US has with race btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 There’s more white people than black people in UK prisons apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Aye, I'd heard that before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34846 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, ewerk said: Aye, I'd heard that before. Interesting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Renton said: 76.5% of the US population is white. 13.4% is black of African descent. So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. About what I expected, why is this interesting? The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population). In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain. Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong. I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics. Edited June 8, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30266 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population). In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain. Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong. I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics. TLDR: 'The blacks get shot because they're all criminals'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..." And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4371 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 It's the same when people say the met is right to pay more attention to blacks in London because they commit the most crimes. The correlation is poverty not skin colour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3353 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..." And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively. Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! 45 minutes ago, Rayvin said: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities. Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42066 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, You’d want to be in the placebo group for that one. Also, found you a new avatar Spoiler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5183 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, sammynb said: Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities. Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. I'm not actually Chinese, I just speak it But thanks for this, it's valid indeed. I read in the UK in the Lammy Report that black men were 3 times more likely to be stopped and searched than their population would justify. There's all kinds of problems with relying simply on the data as well, as you've noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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