President Biden

[Dr Gloom 21912]

the police over there really don't seem to give a shit that every fucked-up thing they're doing is caught on camera phone

 

 

[Sonatine 11361]

[Howmanheyman 33141]

1 hour ago, Meenzer said:

We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday
Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say

We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday
Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say

 

 

That song minus the Yedlin bit came into my head the other day, glad I'm not the only lunatic.

 

[Alex 35063]

37 minutes ago, Tom said:

I hate Caitlin Moran. 

Why’s that? I know she writes for The Times now (or did). Can’t say I’ve paid much attention to her though

[ewerk 30569]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

the police over there really don't seem to give a shit that every fucked-up thing they're doing is caught on camera phone

If you think that any more than a fraction of their abuse is being captured then I have a bridge to sell you.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13861]

Fair play to Yedlin for speaking out. He’s still shit though.

[ewerk 30569]

I see a number of areas in the USA have banned police from using restraint by neck. Because that’s the problem.

[Alex 35063]

That Breonna Taylor story that has come to prominence due to George Floyd’s death is fucking horrific too 

[ewerk 30569]

As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in.

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by ewerk

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

Women drivers eh, what are they like?

 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in.

 

It is a dramatic photo fit for the front page. I agree about the line but if I were picture editing, I’d be tempted to run that snap

[ewerk 30569]

What's interesting about them?

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

Presumably that more white people have been shot than black people, which conveniently misses the next bit. 
“Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020”

[Renton 21588]

76.5% of the US population is white. 

13.4% is black of African descent. 

 

So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. 

 

About what I expected, why is this interesting?

[Renton 21588]

13th on Netflix is a good polemic exposing some of the issues the US has with race btw. 

[Alex 35063]

There’s more white people than black people in UK prisons apparently 

[ewerk 30569]

Aye, I'd heard that before.

[Alex 35063]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Aye, I'd heard that before.

Interesting 

[Rayvin 5217]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

76.5% of the US population is white. 

13.4% is black of African descent. 

 

So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. 

 

About what I expected, why is this interesting?

 

The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population).

 

In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain.

 

Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30569]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population).

 

In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain.

 

Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics.

TLDR: 'The blacks get shot because they're all criminals'.

[Rayvin 5217]

I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..."  

 

And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively.

[NJS 4378]

It's the same when people say the met is right to pay more attention to blacks in London because they commit the most crimes.

 

The correlation is poverty not skin colour. 

 

 

[sammynb 3355]

35 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..."  

 

And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively.

 

Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! 

 

45 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities.

Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. 

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

58 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, 

You’d want to be in the placebo group for that one. 
 

Also, found you a new avatar 

Spoiler

 

[Rayvin 5217]

13 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! 

 

 

In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities.

Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. 

 

I'm not actually Chinese, I just speak it

 

But thanks for this, it's valid indeed. I read in the UK in the Lammy Report that black men were 3 times more likely to be stopped and searched than their population would justify. There's all kinds of problems with relying simply on the data as well, as you've noted.