Jump to content

President Biden


Happy Face
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Meenzer said:

We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday
Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say

We gonna ring-rang-a-dong for a holiday
Put your arms in the air, Yedlin hear you say

:lol::lol:

 

 

That song minus the Yedlin bit came into my head the other day, glad I'm not the only lunatic. :good:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Tom said:

I hate Caitlin Moran. 

Why’s that? I know she writes for The Times now (or did). Can’t say I’ve paid much attention to her though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

the police over there really don't seem to give a shit that every fucked-up thing they're doing is caught on camera phone

If you think that any more than a fraction of their abuse is being captured then I have a bridge to sell you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in.

 

064DD218-8F6A-4C99-96BA-281C2306BC72.jpeg

Edited by ewerk
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

As thousands protest in the U.K. against racism the Mail on Sunday find the angle that their readers will be interested in.

 

064DD218-8F6A-4C99-96BA-281C2306BC72.jpeg

It is a dramatic photo fit for the front page. I agree about the line but if I were picture editing, I’d be tempted to run that snap

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Presumably that more white people have been shot than black people, which conveniently misses the next bit. 
“Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020”

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

76.5% of the US population is white. 

13.4% is black of African descent. 

 

So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. 

 

About what I expected, why is this interesting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Renton said:

76.5% of the US population is white. 

13.4% is black of African descent. 

 

So the odds ratio of being shot (2019 figures from the linked source) if you are black is 2.66, a hugely increased risk. 

 

About what I expected, why is this interesting?

 

The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population).

 

In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain.

 

Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics.

Edited by Rayvin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The argument in favour of the police, which does hold some water, is that if you track the demographic breakdown of those who commit violent crimes, it marries up fairly well with the rate that police shoot people. There is very little evidence of racial bias in police shootings once you track it against crimes committed.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

 

This in effect means that black people are over-represented in police shooting fatalities because they are over-represented in committing crimes that lead to police shootings (This article notes that between 1989 and 2008, 50% of all homicides in the US were carried out by black people - despite being only 13% of the population).

 

In light of this, I personally feel that it's far more relevant to look at systemic racism in terms of how it manifests within black communities with respect of poverty. There is no arguing that black America has been intentionally deprived of opportunities to move towards prosperity, and this in turns forces many young black men to lives of crime that young white men, were they siimilarly disadvantaged, would also turn to. So acknowledging the data doesn't mean denying racism, it just means putting the blame where it is more accurately due. And despite everything we see, and the many cases of terrible policing that come up, the American police are not actually demonstrably racist in terms of shootings, based on the data. The system racism is further back down the chain.

 

Because this is such a sensitive area, I want to stress that I fully support BLM, I fully support reform of the police, certainly at least with respect of banishing qualified immunity, and I do believe that systemic racism exists and needs to be confronted. What I am -not sure- about, is that there is a great deal of evidence that the US police are institutionally racist, at least in terms of the actual data. Now, the data could be massaged or whatever, sure, but a lot of it now appears to be independently collected. Please do correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, but that would of course fail to take into consideration some unique circumstances specific to particular demographics.

TLDR: 'The blacks get shot because they're all criminals'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..." :lol: 

 

And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the same when people say the met is right to pay more attention to blacks in London because they commit the most crimes.

 

The correlation is poverty not skin colour. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I almost added "TLDR; I'm not a racist but..." :lol: 

 

And I'm not saying this is fact, but it is my understanding, at the moment. So I'm potentially ignorant, sure, but I'm very open to being informed alternatively.

 

Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! :razz:

 

45 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities.

Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think a really interesting study could be carried out to look at rates of police shootings against people from similar economic backgrounds, 

You’d want to be in the placebo group for that one. 
 

Also, found you a new avatar :lol:

Spoiler

Mussolini-e1405042269468.jpg

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Typical Chinese outlook to African Americans and Muslims! :razz:

 

 

In the US there is no doubt that those stats are skewed by the fact the systematic racism in a large number of their states means their policing overlooks crimes by the caucasian population and at the same time victimises their African American communities.

Australia's treatment of our first nation people is equally despicable. 

 

I'm not actually Chinese, I just speak it ;)

 

But thanks for this, it's valid indeed. I read in the UK in the Lammy Report that black men were 3 times more likely to be stopped and searched than their population would justify. There's all kinds of problems with relying simply on the data as well, as you've noted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Andrew changed the title to President Biden

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.