President Biden

[PaddockLad 17285]

 My Rangers mate is furious...he’s trying to find some way in his Apple settings to keep Parler..

He says “the left” never get censored because the internet is run by “lefties”... tbf, he’s got a point there  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42460]

I’d suggest the Yank lot go back to using good ‘ole snail mail to spread their hatred, but their Cunt-in-Chief did his best to destroy the USPS. 

 

Delicious. 

[Blastronaut 1333]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

 My Rangers mate is furious...he’s trying to find some way in his Apple settings to keep Parler..

He says “the left” never get censored because the internet is run by “lefties”... tbf, he’s got a point there  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reassure him it's all archived and there for the world to see. Fascinating reading, some of it. 

 

The Parler profile of the "kind, loving family man who wouldn't hurt a fly" guy who tasered himself in the testicals and died of a heart attack sorta contradicts his family's statement. 

1 hour ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Tbh, free speech and political partisanship goes out of the window when you start being a racist, gay bashing, trans hating, all lives matter bigot who threatens to murder anyone who disagree with them. 

 

Yeah, freedom of speech doesn't mean immunity from any repercussions for whatever vile shit comes out your mouth. 

[Meenzer 15552]

1 hour ago, Blastronaut said:

The Parler profile of the "kind, loving family man who wouldn't hurt a fly" guy who tasered himself in the testicals and died of a heart attack sorta contradicts his family's statement.

 

Still, at least the incident has given us this

 

[RobinRobin 11289]

12 hours ago, Isegrim said:

The swamp strikes back.

[PaddockLad 17285]

This member mentioned how the briefing had underscored the wisdom of Twitter suspending Trump’s account, as well as tens of thousands of accounts associated with the right-wing conspiracy theory QAnon, and said the decision to cut off the social media platform Parler “looked a lot smarter” given the efforts to recruit armed extremists to come to the nation’s capital in the coming days.

 

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-briefed-plot-overthrow-government_n_5ffd29a4c5b691806c4bf199

[The Fish 10862]

17 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Yeah but it's a very co-ordinated strike. It's clearly politically motivated and I say this as someone who is actually on board with it. They could have done this at any point over the years but now there's blood in the water, they've all gone in together.

 

They're attempting to close the right out because they now feel they can get away with it. And frankly, more power to them.

I don't think they're closing out the right, they're closing out the far-right. I think this action is that of a responsible service provider. The accounts they've blocked aren't fiscally conservative, championing small business and reduction in goverment overreach, they're using the platform to spread misinformation and incite violent acts against protected groups. 

 

I don't believe that Facebook is a left-leaning provider, Zuckerberg strikes me as true a capitalist as there can be. The idea that they've been waiting for an opportunity to shut down these groups is counter to them prevaricating while dodging earlier opportunities. They had, in Obama, the perfect President to work with in shutting down the far-right, but they've held off until the one thing they care about is challenged; their bottom line. Trump's zealots have forced their hand, they can't allow their brand to be tarnished any further, so they've acted.

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

13 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I don't think they're closing out the right, they're closing out the far-right. I think this action is that of a responsible service provider. The accounts they've blocked aren't fiscally conservative, championing small business and reduction in goverment overreach, they're using the platform to spread misinformation and incite violent acts against protected groups. 

 

I don't believe that Facebook is a left-leaning provider, Zuckerberg strikes me as true a capitalist as there can be. The idea that they've been waiting for an opportunity to shut down these groups is counter to them prevaricating while dodging earlier opportunities. They had, in Obama, the perfect President to work with in shutting down the far-right, but they've held off until the one thing they care about is challenged; their bottom line. Trump's zealots have forced their hand, they can't allow their brand to be tarnished any further, so they've acted.

 

 

 

What makes you think their bottom line has been challenged? No one cares anymore man, no one was gonna desert Twitter because they didn't ban Trump. Or Facebook.

 

Parler wasn't taken down by Amazon before the capitol storming despite having all the same ammo available to them. They needed the excuse.

 

I'm not sure why we're arguing this really anyway - I believe it's necessary and justifiable censorship because someone has to do or say something to stop this misinformed populist bullshit. You think private companies are taking people offline en masse because they're following all their usual processes and the timing is coincidental. Either way, we both agree that it needs to happen.

 

Also either way, the entirety of the online right wing is claiming they are being oppressed and that this is censorship of their views. Even the left has raised eyebrows (likely out of concern that they're next).

 

To repeat, I'm fully on board with it anyway. I'm long past caring about being reasonable in this complete shitshow the right have foisted on us.

[Dr Gloom 21954]

55 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm not sure why we're arguing this really anyway 

wtf else is there to do? it's either do some work or back to year one arithmetic for me 

[Rayvin 5223]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

wtf else is there to do? it's either do some work or back to year one arithmetic for me 

 

 

That is unenviable.

[The Fish 10862]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

What makes you think their bottom line has been challenged? No one cares anymore man, no one was gonna desert Twitter because they didn't ban Trump. Or Facebook.

 

Parler wasn't taken down by Amazon before the capitol storming despite having all the same ammo available to them. They needed the excuse.

 

I'm not sure why we're arguing this really anyway - I believe it's necessary and justifiable censorship because someone has to do or say something to stop this misinformed populist bullshit. You think private companies are taking people offline en masse because they're following all their usual processes and the timing is coincidental. Either way, we both agree that it needs to happen.

 

Also either way, the entirety of the online right wing is claiming they are being oppressed and that this is censorship of their views. Even the left has raised eyebrows (likely out of concern that they're next).

 

To repeat, I'm fully on board with it anyway. I'm long past caring about being reasonable in this complete shitshow the right have foisted on us.

Better for their brand and bottom line to take action now, than wait for possibly tighter restrictions imposed upon them by a Democrat President, House & Senate. Like a pub clamping down on under-age drinking before the rozzers shut it down. I don't, for a second, believe these platforms have suddenly grown a social conscience.

 

Of course the Nazis are whining that they've been silenced, they honestly believe 'Free Speech' is something that it isn't. They believe it's their right to incite violence, or espouse hateful positions with impunity. Those on the left worried about this need to grow a fucking pair. If Anarcists and Marxists start storming the government buildings and subsequently have their facebook profile taken down, good.

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

22 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Better for their brand and bottom line to take action now, than wait for possibly tighter restrictions imposed upon them by a Democrat President, House & Senate. Like a pub clamping down on under-age drinking before the rozzers shut it down. I don't, for a second, believe these platforms have suddenly grown a social conscience.

 

Of course the Nazis are whining that they've been silenced, they honestly believe 'Free Speech' is something that it isn't. They believe it's their right to incite violence, or espouse hateful positions with impunity. Those on the left worried about this need to grow a fucking pair. If Anarcists and Marxists start storming the government buildings and subsequently have their facebook profile taken down, good.

 

 

 

Well the extremist left and right are two sides of the same coin, so yeah they would be concerned. Although having said that, I've never seen any suggestion that the left has intended to overthrow government.

 

It's worth noting that various world leaders, including respected ones like Angela Merkel, have expressed alarm at silicon valley coming together for the silencing of Trump. I'm only mentioning this to indicate that I'm not out here on a limb when I say that this is censorship. Even the Mexican president has called it out, and I can't imagine he's a big Trump fan.

 

Fwiw, shutting down access to people and closing off dialogue because it's coming from the far right/fascists is 100% still the right thing to do, but 100% still censorship. So I agree with this:

 

19 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Free speech stops when fascism starts. If Trump hadn’t incited his followers to try to overturn a free and fair election I doubt we would be seeing this reaction from Big Tech. 

 

I guess we can agree that it's a co-ordinated political act, as Gloom implies by grouping them together. And that free speech must stop when fascism starts. So we are all totally in agreement on this, other than the word censorship, bizarrely - which is think is just because of the pejorative connotations. I don't see the harm in calling it what it is - necessary, positive, censorship. The kind that you need to apply to children because they lack the maturity and wisdom to understand what they're saying and doing.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Rayvin

[The Fish 10862]

I also think we disagree on why the big tech firms have done it.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

47 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Well the extremist left and right are two sides of the same coin, so yeah they would be concerned. Although having said that, I've never seen any suggestion that the left has intended to overthrow government.

It's worth noting that various world leaders, including respected ones like Angela Merkel, have expressed alarm at silicon valley coming together for the silencing of Trump. I'm only mentioning this to indicate that I'm not out here on a limb when I say that this is censorship. Even the Mexican president has called it out, and I can't imagine he's a big Trump fan.

Fwiw, shutting down access to people and closing off dialogue because it's coming from the far right/fascists is 100% still the right thing to do, but 100% still censorship. 

I guess we can agree that it's a co-ordinated political act, as Gloom implies by grouping them together. And that free speech must stop when fascism starts. So we are all totally in agreement on this, other than the word censorship, bizarrely - which is think is just because of the pejorative connotations. I don't see the harm in calling it what it is - necessary, positive, censorship. The kind that you need to apply to children because they lack the maturity and wisdom to understand what they're saying and doing.

Worth noting Censorship has been around since WW2 and has been universally accepted. You can't walk around with a swastika on your shirt. You can't join the National Front. You can't call your son Adolf. 
 

More recently we've had Muslim extremists inciting violence over social media that have been censored and prosecuted. 99.99% of the population never had an issue with it 

 

Not sure why this is any different. The shit on Parler and from Trump's account about overthrowing the election etc is no different IMO. Encouraging the police to be violent against black offenders. "When the looting starts the shooting starts". If it was coming out of the mouth of a Muslim preacher there'd be fucking hell on 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Kid Dynamite

[Rayvin 5223]

38 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I also think we disagree on why the big tech firms have done it.

 

I could buy the notion that they're enforcing terms of service if it hadn't all just kicked off at once. Twitter have banned 70,000 accounts since the riot, and the President (who they went to court against a couple of years ago to insist that everyone be able to see what he writes) - not before, since. Amazon takes down Parler, Google and Apple remove it from the app store, Facebook goes on similar purges.

 

So for your version to be true, these companies would have to have been failing to enforce their own terms of service through wilful negligence, and when everything went down they realised they were hopelessly overexposed and needed to suddenly act like they gave a damn. Or no one was posting any fascist stuff until the riots kicked off.

 

I could see it if it had just been twitter. All of them in there together, idk. Looks co-ordinated to me.

[Rayvin 5223]

11 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Worth noting Censorship has been around since WW2 and has been universally accepted. You can't walk around with a swastika on your shirt. You can't join the National Front. You can't call your son Adolf. 
 

More recently we've had Muslim extremists inciting violence over social media that have been censored and prosecuted. 99.99% of the population never had an issue with it 

 

Not sure why this is any different. The shit on Parler and from Trump's account about overthrowing the election etc is no different IMO. Encouraging the police to be violent against black offenders. "When the looting starts the shooting starts". If it was coming out of the mouth of a Muslim preacher there'd be fucking hell on 

 

Yeah don't disagree with any of this. It's no different.

[Gemmill 44955]

The reason they didn't do this earlier was money, and the reason they've chosen to do it now is cos the committees they will face, and those now in power, aren't the orange bloke that they've spent the last 5 years profiting from. 

 

It's entirely about self preservation. The time to do the right thing was fucking ages ago. 

[The Fish 10862]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I could buy the notion that they're enforcing terms of service if it hadn't all just kicked off at once. Twitter have banned 70,000 accounts since the riot, and the President (who they went to court against a couple of years ago to insist that everyone be able to see what he writes) - not before, since. Amazon takes down Parler, Google and Apple remove it from the app store, Facebook goes on similar purges.

 

So for your version to be true, these companies would have to have been failing to enforce their own terms of service through wilful negligence, and when everything went down they realised they were hopelessly overexposed and needed to suddenly act like they gave a damn. Or no one was posting any fascist stuff until the riots kicked off.

 

I could see it if it had just been twitter. All of them in there together, idk. Looks co-ordinated to me.

This is exactly what I think happened. 

 

I saw something somewhere that claimed something like 67% of the people who'd joined extreme groups on facebook had been directed there by the algorithm. They're complicit in this as they chased the green. 

 

Trump and his ilk have been radicalising with impunity and, like KD said, if it had been an Islamic fundamentalist there'd have been hell on. I honestly think Facebook and the rest thought it was fine because they didn't believe an insurrection was possible and the risk was worth the reward.

[Rayvin 5223]

But then why would Amazon, Google and Apple be involved in this. They're not overexposed here, certainly not ahead of Twitter and Facebook.

 

I can see the argument but I think a significant part of this is shutting down as many Trump supporters as possible at least until Biden is sworn in, potentially to prevent them organising again. It's just too much, too fast, for it not to have been co-ordinated. I mean they've kicked the shit out of Parler from all sides, simultaneously. And it's not actually as big a problem for right wing radicalisation (in terms of sheer numbers) as facebook or twitter themselves. Why haven't they been kicked out of the app store?

 

Because they're part of 'big tech' and 'big tech' appear to move as one on all things political.

 

Anyway, yes, they should have done this ages ago - and frankly, both twitter and facebook should be getting the shit kicked out of them too. I hope they drown in committees.

[PaddockLad 17285]

36 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Worth noting Censorship has been around since WW2 and has been universally accepted. You can't walk around with a swastika on your shirt. You can't join the National Front. You can't call your son Adolf. 
 

More recently we've had Muslim extremists inciting violence over social media that have been censored and prosecuted. 99.99% of the population never had an issue with it 

 

Not sure why this is any different. The shit on Parler and from Trump's account about overthrowing the election etc is no different IMO. Encouraging the police to be violent against black offenders. "When the looting starts the shooting starts". If it was coming out of the mouth of a Muslim preacher there'd be fucking hell on 

 

 

You could definitely wear swastikas and join the national front throughout the 70s & 80s in the UK. NF used to sell their Bulldog rag outside the Gallowgate end ... you'd also usually find a student selling Torchlight or some other anti racist stuff stood next to them..

[Monkeys Fist 42460]

Coordinated or not ( it’s coordinated), it is censorship, but it’s the kind of majority-mandated censorship we live with every day. 
You can’t show people being eviscerated on the news because of majority-mandated censorship, likewise you can’t show people actually banging each other on tv because of  majority-mandated censorship. 
We all broadly agree to these terms. 
 

The thing about Trumpets is that they’re a minority. A loud, ignorant, loathsome minority,  but still a minority. 
The majority find their views distasteful and so they’ve been subjected to a majority-mandated form of censorship. 

 

 

TLDR; Get fucked Trump, we won. 

[The Fish 10862]

47 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

But then why would Amazon, Google and Apple be involved in this. They're not overexposed here, certainly not ahead of Twitter and Facebook.

 

I can see the argument but I think a significant part of this is shutting down as many Trump supporters as possible at least until Biden is sworn in, potentially to prevent them organising again. It's just too much, too fast, for it not to have been co-ordinated. I mean they've kicked the shit out of Parler from all sides, simultaneously. And it's not actually as big a problem for right wing radicalisation (in terms of sheer numbers) as facebook or twitter themselves. Why haven't they been kicked out of the app store?

 

Because they're part of 'big tech' and 'big tech' appear to move as one on all things political.

 

Anyway, yes, they should have done this ages ago - and frankly, both twitter and facebook should be getting the shit kicked out of them too. I hope they drown in committees.

Guilt by association and a low-risk gain for them. Yes, Twitter and Facebook are on the front line, but while they're getting, rightly, criticised, the three you mention can appear morally superior by taking action they likely would have had to at some point.

 

I think you're looking for some left-wing conspiracy when, if the last decade has shown us anything, the left can't organise themselves let alone impose influence on others. If this was some Big Tech coordinated attack, why not do it under Obama? Attack those fringe right-wing groups in their infancy and lock in a friendly government for a few more years at least?

[Gemmill 44955]

I was listening to something this morning where the bloke said "Zuckerberg and Dorsey don't lean red and they don't lean blue. They lean green." 

 

This isn't a conspiracy or a coordinated attack, it was just long overdue time to do something, and once one moved they all had to move. 

[Rayvin 5223]

4 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Guilt by association and a low-risk gain for them. Yes, Twitter and Facebook are on the front line, but while they're getting, rightly, criticised, the three you mention can appear morally superior by taking action they likely would have had to at some point.

 

I think you're looking for some left-wing conspiracy when, if the last decade has shown us anything, the left can't organise themselves let alone impose influence on others. If this was some Big Tech coordinated attack, why not do it under Obama? Attack those fringe right-wing groups in their infancy and lock in a friendly government for a few more years at least?

 

Parler could have taken the same action though, it notionally agrees to the same principles as I understand it. The difference is that it had no opportunity to do so in the same way that twitter and facebook have had.

 

I'm not really calling it a conspiracy either, at least in the sense that conspiracies denote something nefarious, whereas this is more an act of righteousness. I'm merely looking at 5 technological giants all deciding within 24 hours of each other to delete Trump supporters en masse, along with an outsider site that is less guilty than several of the 5 major players in getting us to the point we're at, and concluding that they probably all have lines of communication open between them in order to co-ordinate their actions to inflict maximum damage.

 

As for 'why not do it in the Obama years' - this sort of implies that you think my view here is that big tech are working hand in hand with the democrats and politicians. I don't think that. The democrats have said next to nothing about Trump supporters and appear to be turning all their energies towards taking down Trump himself. Big tech are a law unto themselves IMO and they're on the front lines of the culture war. They've found a moment wherein they can do some serious damage to 'the other side' and they've taken it.

 

Also, arguably the democrats and certainly big tech, are definitely not left wing. This is the revenge of the centreground. And it has my complete support because it demonstrates a will to actually do something about the out of control right wing after years of placating them. What I wouldn't give for something similar to happen over here.

 

 

[The Fish 10862]

If me and Scott agree on something, it pretty much has to be taken as gospel.