President Biden

[Renton 21303]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

Biden has nothing to offer beyond not being Trump

 

This is a huge thing to offer In my mind.

 

And, btw, Hilllary Clinton was not smashed by Trump. She easily won the popular vote and was within a few thousand strategic votes of taking the presidency.

 

I've not been following the US stuff much as our own political situation is fucked enough. But what I will say is what I hear from people actually living in the US is much more positive than what is touted here. I don't expect another Trump presidency. 

[Rayvin 5176]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

It's difficult to berate the left for not being united while simultaneously dismissing anyone on the left who doesn't share your world view but you've managed to do it. Well done.

 

That's the point though ewerk. There is nothing being put forward that the left can unify around - not even climate change has managed to do it. You talk about unity as if we should all just band together around whatever policies float at the time. That isn't a fucking vision, it's not unity, its an alliance of convenience.

 

The left does need a movement, it needs something like momentum even. Just a momentum run by people who aren't total fuckwits. Unfortunately with the left, although increasingly with the right too, it's only the total fuckwits that come to the fore.

 

So it doesn't matter who I dismiss in this fiasco of a political leaning because until someone comes forward with an actual fucking vision and a strategy to achieve it, a Blair if you will but clearly a more radical one, we aren't going anywhere.

 

Starmer, as much as I'll vote for him, has no vision. He will lose. Biden has no vision. He will lose. If we do get someone with a vision, the media just destroy them. We are fucked.

[Renton 21303]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

That's the point though ewerk. There is nothing being put forward that the left can unify around - not even climate change has managed to do it. You talk about unity as if we should all just band together around whatever policies float at the time. That isn't a fucking vision, it's not unity, its an alliance of convenience.

 

The left does need a movement, it needs something like momentum even. Just a momentum run by people who aren't total fuckwits. Unfortunately with the left, although increasingly with the right too, it's only the total fuckwits that come to the fore.

 

So it doesn't matter who I dismiss in this fiasco of a political leaning because until someone comes forward with an actual fucking vision and a strategy to achieve it, a Blair if you will but clearly a more radical one, we aren't going anywhere.

 

Starmer, as much as I'll vote for him, has no vision. He will lose. Biden has no vision. He will lose. If we do get someone with a vision, the media just destroy them. We are fucked.

 

We're likely heading into a global recession, maybe depression. That will hurt people in a tangible way. It'll be interesting to see if Trump, who has all time low approval rates, can survive that. Johnson even more so. We'll see, but you're being a bit pessimistic imo. 

[Rayvin 5176]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

This is a huge thing to offer In my mind.

 

And, btw, Hilllary Clinton was not smashed by Trump. She easily won the popular vote and was within a few thousand strategic votes of taking the presidency.

 

I've not been following the US stuff much as our own political situation is fucked enough. But what I will say is what I hear from people actually living in the US is much more positive than what is touted here. I don't expect another Trump presidency. 

 

Clinton lost to a man whose ratings were the lowest of any president to take office, after he was publicly outed for sexual assault, and whose incompetence knows no bounds. She lost to that man. I don't care if it was by one vote, she was smashed. Any competent (far) right politician would have utterly annihilated her. As it is, an incompetent one won a close victory.

 

People want change.

[Tom 14011]

There are large parts of the “far left” () who I’m genuinely starting to think don’t want a labour government. Maybe the WiFi is better in the opposition seats? 

 

Starmer is about as left as they come but Momentum and the likes are going on as if he’s just right of Hitler.

Asking where his funding has come from despite the fact he’s met the rules and declared it.

Meanwhile RLB gets an interest free loan of £20,000 from momentum & pisses £100ks of Union money up the wall.

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, Renton said:

 

We're likely heading into a global recession, maybe depression. That will hurt people in a tangible way. It'll be interesting to see if Trump, who has all time low approval rates, can survive that. Johnson even more so. We'll see, but you're being a bit pessimistic imo. 

 

Maybe. I have nothing left to believe in.

 

IMO Trump will win and use COVID to sustain his assaults on internationalism. Johnson will win because Labour are done.

 

4 more years of the former, and IMO up to two more terms for the latter.

[Rayvin 5176]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

There are large parts of the “far left” () who I’m genuinely starting to think don’t want a labour government. Maybe the WiFi is better in the opposition seats? 

 

Starmer is about as left as they come but Momentum and the likes are going on as if he’s just right of Hitler.

Asking where his funding has come from despite the fact he’s met the rules and declared it.

Meanwhile RLB gets an interest free loan of £20,000 from momentum pisses £100ks of Union money up the wall.

 

I've noticed the stuff about Starmer's funding too. It's pointless and doesn't get us anywhere. Starmer will lose to the Tories but he'll lose more closely than RLB will. May as well put our best foot forward.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin

[Renton 21303]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

Clinton lost to a man whose ratings were the lowest of any president to take office, after he was publicly outed for sexual assault, and whose incompetence knows no bounds. She lost to that man. I don't care if it was by one vote, she was smashed. Any competent (far) right politician would have utterly annihilated her. As it is, an incompetent one won a close victory.

 

People want change.

 

Well agreed, although "smashed" is clearly wilfully wrong terminology. It was an event in time. Does that mean it will always be like this? Not necessarily. People still want change, maybe it isn't in the direction you think, maybe most just want "normality ". 

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, Renton said:

 

Well agreed, although "smashed" is clearly wilfully wrong terminology. It was an event in time. Does that mean it will always be like this? Not necessarily. People still want change, maybe it isn't in the direction you think, maybe most just want "normality ". 

 

How do we achieve normality with the planet on fire? How do you mitigate for that without radical overhaul?

[Renton 21303]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

How do we achieve normality with the planet on fire? How do you mitigate for that without radical overhaul?

 

The first thing you do is not make it worse, then look for solutions, technological ones as well as political. Get rid of Trump and take stock. I mean, you might be right in your bleak prognosis. I just hope you're not, obviously.

[NJS 4371]

18 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

This is a huge thing to offer In my mind.

 

And, btw, Hilllary Clinton was not smashed by Trump. She easily won the popular vote and was within a few thousand strategic votes of taking the presidency.

 

I've not been following the US stuff much as our own political situation is fucked enough. But what I will say is what I hear from people actually living in the US is much more positive than what is touted here. I don't expect another Trump presidency. 

She lost all or nearly all of the swing states, take away CA and the popular vote margin wasn't that big. 

 

8 months ahead of the election, with no real Trump attacks, no dem apart from Sanders beats trump in the polls. 

 

 

[Rayvin 5176]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

The first thing you do is not make it worse, then look for solutions, technological ones as well as political. Get rid of Trump and take stock. I mean, you might be right in your bleak prognosis. I just hope you're not, obviously.

 

I think I've given up on hope altogether tbh. I "hope" I'm not right too. But the consistent thing I've noticed in my entire adult life following politics, is statements like the following:

 

The Tories and the LDs will never keep this coalition  together.

 

The Tories will never win after austerity.

 

Leave won't win.

 

Brexit will never actually happen.

 

Trump will never win.

 

The Tories will never get away with Brexit.

 

Trump will never see out a full term.

 

Latest instalments are:

 

Trump won't win next time.

 

The Tories won't survive actually delivering Brexit.

[ewerk 30266]

3 minutes ago, NJS said:

no dem apart from Sanders beats trump in the polls. 

 

The polls have Biden beating Trump by a wider margin than Sanders.

[Renton 21303]

12 minutes ago, NJS said:

She lost all or nearly all of the swing states, take away CA and the popular vote margin wasn't that big. 

 

8 months ahead of the election, with no real Trump attacks, no dem apart from Sanders beats trump in the polls. 

 

 

 

Is this true? I've just googled opinion polls that state Trump loses against every Democrat candidate by between 4 and 9%, with Bloomberg having the biggest gap, followed by Sanders. This was from February 10th, has it completely changed? 

 

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3655

 

And this is before an almost inevitable recession. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Renton

[Renton 21303]

9 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think I've given up on hope altogether tbh. I "hope" I'm not right too. But the consistent thing I've noticed in my entire adult life following politics, is statements like the following:

 

The Tories and the LDs will never keep this coalition  together.

 

The Tories will never win after austerity.

 

Leave won't win.

 

Brexit will never actually happen.

 

Trump will never win.

 

The Tories will never get away with Brexit.

 

Trump will never see out a full term.

 

Latest instalments are:

 

Trump won't win next time.

 

The Tories won't survive actually delivering Brexit.

 

Most people haven't been really hurt by the far right yet. But when that critical mass occurs, maybe there will be a reaction.

 

If we still have a democracy by then, of course. 

[NJS 4371]

I,ve just seen a few swing state polls tbh - fully admit if I'm wrong. 

[Meenzer 15405]

58 minutes ago, Tom said:

Meanwhile RLB gets an interest free loan of £20,000 from momentum & pisses £100ks of Union money up the wall.

 

No wonder Ian Lavery likes her.

[ewerk 30266]

Bloomberg is out. Warren considering her options.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

bernie has no chance. the democrats might just nick it with biden

[Rayvin 5176]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

bernie has no chance. the democrats might just nick it with biden

 

Depends how many Bernie voters are prepared to vote for him really.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

Depends how many Bernie voters are prepared to vote for him really.

if they don't they know who to blame when trump gets another 4 years

 

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

if they don't they know who to blame when trump gets another 4 years

 

 

If I was them, that kind of bullshit wouldn't work on me anymore. My conscience would be clear as day.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

sanders, like corbyn, is a "with me or against me" no compromises type who will lose the election.

biden is cut from the same cloth as Hilary but he will do better in the rust belt. he will also do better in florida than bernie would. it's a crucial state if the dems are going to do well and bernie ostracised half the state with his bizarre pro-castro views. again, like corbyn, he is completely unbending in support for dodgy people who are electorally toxic. 

biden's amazing night underlines the importance of coalition-building. his is a broad tent and includes blacks, surburban women etc tec. 

biden can win - the centrists are coming - coalitions win elections. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[ewerk 30266]

Ah, the benefits of the self confidence that moral purity brings.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

If I was them, that kind of bullshit wouldn't work on me anymore. My conscience would be clear as day.

clear conscious, but you lose your right to complain about the result if you don't vote