President Biden

[Park Life 71]

If Rayvin twitches the dollar dives man.

[Rayvin 5227]

 

But seriously though, he's being stopped all over the place on almost every issue. I'll start worrying about it when he actually does something damaging. If he gets through the whole presidency having been kept within the range of a standard republican president, I'll be satisfied that he was more (unwitting) good than he was actual harm.

[Dr Gloom 21965]

the world is such a serene place with trump in the white house, and the uk about to enforce article 50. i've never felt so relaxed. 

[Rayvin 5227]

Well no, I'm concerned about Article 50. Fuck knows what we're going to get out of that.

 

I'm just not worried about Trump. Not at the moment at least.

[Alex 35120]

Well no, I'm concerned about Article 50.

I'm not, so you can all just chill

[Rayvin 5227]

I didn't say you shouldn't worry. You absolutely should, as your set of opinions and general belief structure hasn't taken you to the same conclusions as mine.

 

I'm just saying that I'm not worrying. Not yet at least.

[Renton 21643]

Just because his worst excesses are curbed by the US political architecture doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned. His very presence in the Whitehouse is of concern enough.

[Rayvin 5227]

Just because his worst excesses are curbed by the US political architecture doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned. His very presence in the Whitehouse is of concern enough.

 

Aye but that's because you think he's there because people are hateful idiots, and that this in turn means that they're a problem we have to solve by virtue of who they are. Whereas I think they're desperate idiots, who've been ignored by mainstream politics - and that this is going to force mainstream politics to change for the better (because it'll die if it doesn't).

[Dr Gloom 21965]

it's the symbolism of his election victory as much as anything, and the type of people across the world who will look at it and feel emboldened. he was elected after a divisive campaign driven by hate, fear and lies. the hitler comment from parky was dismissive, but it shouldn't be taken lightly. populists and neo nazis around the world will look at brexit and trump, and hope that le pen is next. 

[Renton 21643]

Aye but that's because you think he's there because people are hateful idiots, and that this in turn means that they're a problem we have to solve by virtue of who they are. Whereas I think they're desperate idiots, who've been ignored by mainstream politics - and that this is going to force mainstream politics to change for the better (because it'll die if it doesn't).

Whereas you think this may herald the demise of neoliberalism, but I think it is the death of liberal social democracy.

 

Rayvin, there is no way on earth anything good can come out of the Trump Presidency. The whole landscape has shifted to the right, both in the US and UK, and western Europe. There's literally no reason to think it's going to bounce back the other way.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Renton

[Rayvin 5227]

Whereas you think this may herald the demise of neoliberalism, but I think it is the death of liberal social democracy.

 

Rayvin, there is no way on earth anything good can come out of the Trump Presidency. The whole landscape has shifted to the right, both in the US and UK, and western Europe. There's literally no reason to think it's going to bounce back the other way.

 

You're right on the first statement there tbf, that does encapsulate our view points. Not sure I'd go so far as to say the 'demise' of Neoliberalism, but more the readjustment to better serve more people.

 

I don't think it'll bounce back the other way as such, I just think it'll force the left and centre to realign themselves behind people again. The left is never going to win in its current guise, and the centre is in the same boat now IMO, or at least heading that way.

 

I'm still hoping for an Alt Left.

[Rayvin 5227]

it's the symbolism of his election victory as much as anything, and the type of people across the world who will look at it and feel emboldened. he was elected after a divisive campaign driven by hate, fear and lies. the hitler comment from parky was dismissive, but it shouldn't be taken lightly. populists and neo nazis around the world will look at brexit and trump, and hope that le pen is next. 

 

He fought fire with fire on the campaign trail, identity politics was used by all and sundry. No political force at the moment can claim to be 'unifying'.

 

These people aren't nazis though. Not yet, not in their current form. If we get these people in now, and they 'act' on behalf of the enraged and left behind, it might conceivably have saved us from a more extreme reaction further down the line. I suppose it probably does also embolden the hard right, but realistically, I don't think that makes people any more likely to subscribe to their views.

[NJS 4389]

 

But seriously though, he's being stopped all over the place on almost every issue. I'll start worrying about it when he actually does something damaging. If he gets through the whole presidency having been kept within the range of a standard republican president, I'll be satisfied that he was more (unwitting) good than he was actual harm.

That linking aid to abortion access wasn't stopped - I know Bush did it as well but it's still a cunt's trick.

[Rayvin 5227]

That linking aid to abortion access wasn't stopped - I know Bush did it as well but it's still a cunt's trick.

 

All Republican Presidents do that though. And then the Dems reverse it. That's well within the bounds of normality.

 

Not disagreeing that it's a poor decision, but we would have expected that with any Republican in charge.

[Dr Gloom 21965]

He fought fire with fire on the campaign trail, identity politics was used by all and sundry. No political force at the moment can claim to be 'unifying'.

 

These people aren't nazis though. Not yet, not in their current form. If we get these people in now, and they 'act' on behalf of the enraged and left behind, it might conceivably have saved us from a more extreme reaction further down the line. I suppose it probably does also embolden the hard right, but realistically, I don't think that makes people any more likely to subscribe to their views.

Quite a few of Trump's supporters are, from the Leader of the kkk, to other white supremacist groups.

 

Do you genuinely believe Hilary's campaign was as divisive as Trump's and that he simply fought fire with fire?

[Rayvin 5227]

I do, yes. Given that I believe she lost because she was bigging up her 'woman' status rather than addressing people's actual concerns - a belief I hold having read articles about how blue collar workers in some of the more industrially inclined states, that had voted Democrat every election for the past 30 years, suddenly decided she had no message for them. Both sides have sullied themselves with identity politics drivel, it's just that the right are so much better at it than the left are. The left should be calling out identity politics as a flawed means of progress and labelling it as divisive and unhelpful. Instead, they're dying on their own sword.

[ewerk 30668]

The left should be calling out identity politics as a flawed means of progress and labelling it as divisive and unhelpful. Instead, they're dying on their own sword.

 

I'm not sure that tactic would have benefited the left much. The right used identity politics because it works.

[Meenzer 15561]

If only she'd gone for "I'm With It" as her campaign slogan.

[Rayvin 5227]

I'm not sure that tactic would have benefited the left much. The right used identity politics because it works.

 

It works for them only though. Well, at least as far as I can tell. The left appear to fight identity politics based on othering the mainstream voters. I suppose you could make an argument for the 'women's vote' being a good way of implementing identity politics to appeal to a 'majority' voter base, but it just doesn't work. Largely because most women aren't all that arsed about it as a tactic (apparently, given that a fairly large number of women voted for Trump).

 

The left could at least work on a collective identity around unity and economic progress. That could bring people together who basically have the same lots in life. They don't do this though, they go for simplistic racial and gender  strategies.

[Happy Face 29]

He's governed as he campaigned more than any president I remember.

His words are important because being accurate about the least informed president ever is pivotal when his entire position is that opponents misrepresent the facts.

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/26/trumps-war-on-terror-has-quickly-become-as-barbaric-and-savage-as-he-promised/

 

Reflects what i had been trying to say in the discussion between ewerk Renton and I on whether his increased military budget contradicted his campaign pledges on being non interventionist.

[ewerk 30668]

Does Trump give the go ahead on every drone strike?

[Happy Face 29]

I believe so. Leaked slide with the chain of command from 2013 ends at potus. They have weekly meetings to agree the kill list.

 

 

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/

[Park Life 71]

You must be getting near the top of that list.

[Happy Face 29]

 

[ewerk 30668]

Mike Flynn, September 16: "When you get given immunity that means you've probably committed a crime,"

 

Mike Flynn's lawyer, March 17: "No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution,"