President Biden

[Rayvin 5166]

I don't think that article says what you think it says.

 

It implies everything I think it says.

 

Juhel Miah and a group of children and other teachers were about to take off from Iceland on 16 February on their way to the US when he was removed from the plane at Reykjavik. The previous week, on the 10 February, a US appeals court had upheld a decision to suspend Donald Trump’s executive order that temporarily banned entry to the country from seven Muslim-majority countries.

 

Why drop the above in if unrelated. They know exactly how people will read that.

 

They ran other articles about this as well.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-taken-off-us-bound-flight-i-was-treated-like-a-criminal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-denied-us-entry-i-felt-powerless-video

 

If this is a totally normal thing, why report on it so consistently now?

 

The Indy here as well:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslim-teacher-juhel-miah-us-school-llangatwg-comprehensive-aberdulais-trip-america-pupils-a7590876.html

 

I don't understand the willful ignorance here on this - it's patently obvious stuff.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Rayvin

[Meenzer 15372]

Sorry you're so blinded by your own agenda. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Rayvin 5166]

[Renton 21238]

It implies everything I think it says.

 

Juhel Miah and a group of children and other teachers were about to take off from Iceland on 16 February on their way to the US when he was removed from the plane at Reykjavik. The previous week, on the 10 February, a US appeals court had upheld a decision to suspend Donald Trump’s executive order that temporarily banned entry to the country from seven Muslim-majority countries.

 

Why drop the above in if unrelated. They know exactly how people will read that.

 

They ran other articles about this as well.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-taken-off-us-bound-flight-i-was-treated-like-a-criminal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/feb/21/british-muslim-teacher-denied-us-entry-i-felt-powerless-video

 

If this is a totally normal thing, why report on it so consistently now?

 

The Indy here as well:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslim-teacher-juhel-miah-us-school-llangatwg-comprehensive-aberdulais-trip-america-pupils-a7590876.html

 

I don't understand the willful ignorance here on this - it's patently obvious stuff.

The article was 100% factually correct. I think the link to the "extreme vetting" ordered by Trump is quite fair tbh, it seems likely that incidents like this will increase. Again, if this is the worst example of media bias you have then I give up. Same goes for HF's links which nobody but an obsessive dweeb realllky cares about. Meanwhile, in the real world, the POTUS is blatantly spreading lies about the state of the US in order to create a climate if fear, distrust, hatred, and nationalism. Whilst censoring the press, including that well known fake news outlet the BBC. You don't have to be a historian to figure out where this might be heading.

 

And yet your concern is the 'MSM'. Incredible.

[Dr Gloom 21803]

The article was 100% factually correct. I think the link to the "extreme vetting" ordered by Trump is quite fair tbh, it seems likely that incidents like this will increase. Again, if this is the worst example of media bias you have then I give up. Same goes for HF's links which nobody but an obsessive dweeb realllky cares about. Meanwhile, in the real world, the POTUS is blatantly spreading lies about the state of the US in order to create a climate if fear, distrust, hatred, and nationalism. Whilst censoring the press, including that well known fake news outlet the BBC. You don't have to be a historian to figure out where this might be heading.

 

And yet your concern is the 'MSM'. Incredible.

 

laughable tbf. 

 

no offence, rayvin. 

[Rayvin 5166]

My concern is with the MSM for two reasons:

 

1 - They're alienating a large number of people who are being pushed into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about.

 

2 - They're advocating for a system that is, in my view, no longer fit for purpose - and in need of urgent reform. Failure to do so pushes people into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about.

 

I do not want right wing, climate and vaccine denying nutjobs running the free world. My concern is not that he is popular, it's that we 'sensible' people who are left aghast at the recent developments are learning nothing from any of this. And that's principally because the media have been going through a period of unadulterated hysteria. Because Trump is a threat to their ideology.

[Rayvin 5166]

laughable tbf. 

 

no offence, rayvin. 

 

I'm not taking any offence I'm open to my mind being changed as ever, I'm just seeing nothing from the media to suggest that they aren't behaving in the way that I think they are.

 

I want to stress that I'm not suggesting you or anyone in your office is actively working for some nefarious purpose. I just think the media has become an echo chamber for itself, and that the longer this continues, the worse this is going to get.

[Renton 21238]

My concern is with the MSM for two reasons:

 

1 - They're alienating a large number of people who are being pushed into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about.

 

2 - They're advocating for a system that is, in my view, no longer fit for purpose - and in need of urgent reform. Failure to do so pushes people into the arms of the very thing you're concerned about.

 

I do not want right wing, climate and vaccine denying nutjobs running the free world. My concern is not that he is popular, it's that we 'sensible' people who are left aghast at the recent developments are learning nothing from any of this. And that's principally because the media have been going through a period of unadulterated hysteria. Because Trump is a threat to their ideology.

1) I agree people are alienated. Do you believe that is because mainstream media is delivering fake news? I don't. How do you propose to tackle this alienation, and please don't mention Sanders.

2) No, they're not advocating anything, they are telling it like it is. That's why Trump has issues with them.

 

You call their coverage unadulterated hysteria, yet admit we have an extreme right wing, anti-vaxxer, climate denier, bigoted nut job as POTUS. Surrounded by even worse characters. I guess there's nothing to be worried about, and the media should just toe the white house line?

 

We live in exceptional times. I think considering the mad shit emanating from Washington the media have been restrained and sensible. You'll miss them when they're gone and you're forced to watch Trump news 24/7, as the next minority gets it in the neck.

[Happy Face 29]

Same goes for HF's links which nobody but an obsessive dweeb realllky cares about.

 

And the 63 million that vote for Trump or the 51% of Americans that think the media are unfair.

 

I remember you were complaining that the email scandal would cost Clinton the election though you thought there was nothing incriminating there,  now you're saying nobody but me and a few other dweebs cared about them.

 

MSNBC pundits were reporting the Podesta mails as fakes when they demonstrably weren't.  Ignoring the question of why anyone would fake mails that weren't incriminating, you need to decide if it was massive/decisive issue or not and whether it being a massive issue demanded truthful reporting from Clinton loyalists.

 

If you ultimately decide it's not an issue, then why do you think the vast majority that aren't Breitbart readers don't trust the media?  Because the fact is they don't, and categorising a few hundred million people as morons to fit your world view  doesn't really hold.  Their distrust must come from some common perceptions beyond idiocy, bred across multiple outlets.

[Rayvin 5166]

If Trump manages to dismantle the media in the next 4 years before he's thrown out on his arse at the next election, I'll be amazed. It still won't make my concerns about the media incorrect though.

 

1 - I don't believe the mainstream media is delivering fake news, for the most part. Fake news, in my view, is just total fabrications. I think the media hide things (and distort an individual's understanding of an event through the inclusion of unrelated issues in reports about certain events) in service of their biases and ideological standpoints. Sometimes they can't do this, because the event is too large, but normally they can. We deride the Daily Mail for this quite often - and rightly so. But I've seen the Guardian do the same thing. The Independent. The BBC. They all do it. And it's all in aid of a bias. The problem comes in that when something happens, when views come forward, that are outside of their window of acceptability (Overton Window), they are suddenly ALL doing this. Thus they can be bundled together. But when they're all doing it, and a large number of people hold the views that they aren't putting forward, they're then actively pushing those people away. They're othering them. Then you get Trump, Brexit, and general backlash.

 

I don't have to think up a solution for this, we'll get one either way. As it stands, it looks as though MSM circulation will continue to fall, and people will get their news elsewhere. Alternatively the media could change and move away from their ideologies, but I think that's unlikely from what we're seeing.

 

2 - Even if they're really minor things, in your view, how are the example I posted to you 'telling it like it is'.

 

We're going to lose because of this shit you know.

[Dr Gloom 21803]

I'm not taking any offence I'm open to my mind being changed as ever, I'm just seeing nothing from the media to suggest that they aren't behaving in the way that I think they are.

 

I want to stress that I'm not suggesting you or anyone in your office is actively working for some nefarious purpose. I just think the media has become an echo chamber for itself, and that the longer this continues, the worse this is going to get.

 

the quality media continue to report objectively on what trump is doing, that's plain to me.

 

trump generates more headlines because his policies are more outrageous than his predecessors.

[Renton 21238]

And the 63 million that vote for Trump or the 51% of Americans that think the media are unfair.

 

I remember you were complaining that the email scandal would cost Clinton the election when there was nothing incriminating there, now you're saying nobody but me and a few other dweebs cared about them.

 

MSNBC pundits were reporting the Podesta mails as fakes when they demonstrably weren't. Ignoring the question of why anyone would fake mails that weren't incriminating? You need to decide if it was massive/decisive issue or not and whhether it being a massive issue demanded truthful reporting from Clinton loyalists.

 

If you ultimately decide it's not an issue, then why do you think the vast majority that aren't Breitbart readers don't trust the media? Because the fact is they don't, and categorising a few hundred million people as moron's to fit your world view doesn't really hold. Their distrust must come from some common perceptions beyond idiocy, bred across multiple outlets.

HF, can we put thus to bed now, it's gone. For clarity, I'm not being contrary here. The content of the emails were not especially damaging, but there mere existence was seized upon Trump to feed his crooked Hillary narrative. Given the closeness of the election in some key states its likely that this won him the election.

 

People, especially Americans, are collectively stupid. They are open to manipulation. More often than not, people are most easily manipulated through a combination of (false) fear, jingoism, nationalism , and xenophobia. There are countless historic precedents for this, most obviously 1930s Germany.

 

We love in a free society at present and a free press is essential to that. Well meaning liberal lefties like yourself and Rayvin attacking the press over the most trivial matters is not helpful, you're playing into Trump's tiny hands imo. The western world is heading towards a historic existential crisis. We need to support the press in documenting this before its too late.

[Happy Face 29]

the quality media continue to report objectively on what trump is doing, that's plain to me.

 

trump generates more headlines because his policies are more outrageous than his predecessors.

Agreed. The new-found commitment to facts and truth over stenography in corporate media circles is commendable and I hope it extends beyond a Trump presidency.

 

Similarly the intelligence leaks to inform the public on wrong doing seem to have been greeted with much more praise than leaks under the previous president whose war on whistle blowers had much support.

 

I can't see Trump introducing greater whistleblower protection, but hopefully the next Democrat in office will reflect this current enthusiasm for conscientious leaking.

[Rayvin 5166]

HF, can we put thus to bed now, it's gone. For clarity, I'm not being contrary here. The content of the emails were not especially damaging, but there mere existence was seized upon Trump to feed his crooked Hillary narrative. Given the closeness of the election in some key states its likely that this won him the election.

 

People, especially Americans, are collectively stupid. They are open to manipulation. More often than not, people are most easily manipulated through a combination of (false) fear, jingoism, nationalism , and xenophobia. There are countless historic precedents for this, most obviously 1930s Germany.

 

We love in a free society at present and a free press is essential to that. Well meaning liberal lefties like yourself and Rayvin attacking the press over the most trivial matters is not helpful, you're playing into Trump's tiny hands imo. The western world is heading towards a historic existential crisis. We need to support the press in documenting this before its too late.

 

What would you have us do, exactly? The alternative to looking at why this is happening, for me, is to pretend it isn't.

[Rayvin 5166]

Agreed. The new-found commitment to facts and truth over stenography in corporate media circles is commendable and I hope it extends beyond a Trump presidency.

 

Similarly the intelligence leaks to inform the public on wrong doing seem to have been greeted with much more praise than leaks under the previous president whose war on whistle blowers had much support.

 

I can't see Trump introducing greater whistleblower protection, but hopefully the next Democrat in office will reflect this current enthusiasm for conscientious leaking.

 

 

Nicely put.

[Renton 21238]

What would you have us do, exactly? The alternative to looking at why this is happening, for me, is to pretend it isn't.

We continue to talk shit on an obscure football message board as the world burns I guess.

[Rayvin 5166]

 

Fair comment.

[Happy Face 29]

HF, can we put thus to bed now, it's gone. For clarity, I'm not being contrary here. The content of the emails were not especially damaging, but there mere existence was seized upon Trump to feed his crooked Hillary narrative. Given the closeness of the election in some key states its likely that this won him the election.

 

People, especially Americans, are collectively stupid. They are open to manipulation. More often than not, people are most easily manipulated through a combination of (false) fear, jingoism, nationalism , and xenophobia. There are countless historic precedents for this, most obviously 1930s Germany.

 

We love in a free society at present and a free press is essential to that. Well meaning liberal lefties like yourself and Rayvin attacking the press over the most trivial matters is not helpful, you're playing into Trump's tiny hands imo. The western world is heading towards a historic existential crisis. We need to support the press in documenting this before its too late.

 

I post links to dozens of stories on here.  I value and support a press that leads on facts and truth.  I don't see it as a homogenous entity to blame or praise.  It is as it has always been, filled with partisan elements on either side that should be corrected regardless of who is in power.

 

People are open to manipulation, I agree, but particularly when they are frustrated about their own lives, struggling to survive economically after generations of the status quo, angry that the "other" has a job or is draining their taxes or is bombing their son in conflicts around the world.

 

Blaming Trump for those frustrations that led to him and Bannon manipulating them and making a power grab is not logical, given they're frustrations and resentments that pre-date them.  The answer is to push for an alternative that speaks to those frustrations without being tyrannical.

 

If our only goal is to convince idiots that the "change" they voted for was evil and the Democratic plutocracy that left them frustrated in the first place is their best hope, then we are doomed.

 

I think you agree.  You come across as blazing mad about Labour and their ineffective opposition.  I don't know why you are more sanguine about the democrats complete inability to provide any semblance of appeal to rival that of Trump despite his obvious flaws.

[Happy Face 29]

It's interesting to me that the UK media has framed the argument as Miliband/Labour/Corbyn being entirely useless. There is some criticism of the conservatives, even from within their own party, but by and large the blame is fairly and squarely on the opposition.

 

However in America, an inability to beat Donald bastard Trump gets barely any criticism whatsoever.  Rather than Clinton or the DNC or the economy or corporate control, the loss is blamed squarely on Susan Sarandon and James Comey.

 

Are  the media classes that different? Is it dominated by the public school elites happy to sneer at progressive movements here, while in the US the "liberal media" are Hollywood and will criticise anyone but their democratic friends and corporate funders?

[Rayvin 5166]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl8q3Y2JASs

 

[Park Life 71]

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

https://www.dezeen.com/2017/02/27/architects-will-have-five-days-submit-proposals-donald-trump-us-mexico-border-wall/

[Alex 34795]

Libtard :lol:

[Rayvin 5166]

 

Infowars again.

[Alex 34795]

I didn't even watch it tbh.