The Fish 10430 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) He's just reading a speech though, isn't he. I wonder if any of them actually read up on it. He looked a tit because his ego got in the way. If he'd kept himself out of it I think it would have been a poorly read speech by someone not well informed on the subject, but I don't think it would have been contentious. I think the fact that he and Bannon were both effectively forced to be there by convention suggests that we aren't as far down the slippery slope to fascism as has been suggested recently though. We may, however, be closer to realising the vision set out in idiocracy. Read his transcript and tell me that's based on a prepared speech and not just some key phrases he's been told to mention amongst a vomit of self-aggrandising nonsense. http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-full-transcript-of-donald-trumps-black-history-month-1791871370 e.g. "Mr President we need to talk about honouring the heritage of black america" I’m proud to honor this heritage and (I) will be honoring it more and more. The folks at the table in almost all cases have been great friends and supporters (of me). Darrell—I met Darrell when he was defending me on television. And the people that were on the other side of the argument didn’t have a chance (against me), right? And Paris has done an amazing job in a very hostile CNN community. He’s all by himself. You’ll have seven people, and Paris. And I’ll take Paris over the seven. But I don’t watch CNN, so I don’t get to see you as much as I used to. I don’t like watching fake news. But Fox has treated me very nice. Wherever Fox is, thank you. When Obama gave a speech you accept that it's been penned in large parts by someone else, but you trusted that he at least had digested some of the information around the subject and would understand the principle. For all his flaws you got the impression that while he might not be able to express himself well, Dubya Bush had an inkling of insight into the topic. We knew what he wanted to get at with his "Fool me once" gaff. Trump won't read someone else's words, and won't bother reading about the topic. He isn't just ignorant on the topics, he actively wants to talk about himself above all things. So when he has to deliver a speech, any information he's given prior takes a back seat to sating his ego. Edited February 2, 2017 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34094 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It's not like Trump to not listen to another opinion. https://news.vice.com/story/trump-hangs-up-on-the-australian-prime-minister-after-tense-talks He really is like a 5 year old. And that's probably being unkind to a lot of bairns. Everything is either "the best" or "the worst" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Read his transcript and tell me that's based on a prepared speech and not just some key phrases he's been told to mention amongst a vomit of self-aggrandising nonsense. http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-full-transcript-of-donald-trumps-black-history-month-1791871370 e.g. "Mr President we need to talk about honouring the heritage of black america" When Obama gave a speech you accept that it's been penned in large parts by someone else, but you trusted that he at least had digested some of the information around the subject and would understand the principle. For all his flaws you got the impression that while he might not be able to express himself well, Dubya Bush had an inkling of insight into the topic. We knew what he wanted to get at with his "Fool me once" gaff. Trump won't read someone else's words, and won't bother reading about the topic. He isn't just ignorant on the topics, he actively wants to talk about himself above all things. So when he has to deliver a speech, any information he's given prior takes a back seat to sating his ego. I get what you're saying but he was definitely reading some of it - as I say, I watched the Guardian's cherry picked section. You can tell he read some of it because he didn't realise that MLK had 'junior' on the end of his name and had to insert it awkwardly a second or two later. You could also tell because he was looking down at it while speaking like That's not to say he wasn't ad libbing a lot mind, as he clearly was. But there was a speech. How much of it made it through is another question altogether. Edited February 2, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4650 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I watched it Very cringeful, yes. He clearly knows nothing about black history but I'm not sure that's too surprising for a non-politician. What is deplorable is his rambling on about CNN, the media, the bust of MLK. Go and look up famed idiot George W Bush's speeches on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 He's like Cloughie going into Leeds and pissing off everyone there telling them to throw whatever shit they have in the bin because it's all getting done from scratch now he's here. Hopefully he'll not last much longer than Cloughie did either, once the entire globe (apart from the bff UK obvs) has turned on the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 He's like Cloughie going into Leeds and pissing off everyone there telling them to throw whatever shit they have in the bin because it's all getting done from scratch now he's here. Hopefully he'll not last much longer than Cloughie did either, once the entire globe (apart from the bff UK obvs) has turned on the US. You don't think he'll create a US-Russian axis? Not sure the 'rest of the world' would be able to say very much at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 @@Park Life - were hillary's comments about a no fly zone more scary than this nutter wanting to wage war with china in the south china sea, or start another war in the middle east? this guy is the power behind the throne https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/02/steve-bannon-donald-trump-war-south-china-sea-no-doubt?CMP=share_btn_fb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Didn't he say those things 9 months ago or so? Actually this is an intriguing point, hasn't Bannon only been working with Trump for 6 months? I'm not sure about the idea that he's the power behind the mask, he was very much a late arrival in the whole debacle. I think Trump is perfectly capable of being the real evil himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Didn't he say those things 9 months ago or so? Actually this is an intriguing point, hasn't Bannon only been working with Trump for 6 months? I'm not sure about the idea that he's the power behind the mask, he was very much a late arrival in the whole debacle. I think Trump is perfectly capable of being the real evil himself. i think it's pretty clear he's pulling the strings. why the fuck is he sitting on the nsc? white house sources say his fingerprints have been all over the muslim ban and trump's inauguration speech. i've no doubt you're right that trump can be evil, but he is also stupid enough to be manipulated by this man, who also, let's not forget, has called for a christian holy war Edited February 2, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) So you think he infiltrated the Trump campaign and took over the whole thing in six months? I mean to be fair to you, if that's true we really do have to be worried. Cos the guy has gone from running a news site no one had ever heard of to running the United States of America in 6 months. If he can do that, he can do anything. Why couldn't he be on the NSC as a puppet of Trump? Edited February 2, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 i think he has influenced trump from the beginning, to the point that trump made him campaign manager then his chief strategist, yeah. he clearly has trump's ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42648 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 These sound like alternative facts from Gloom, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/opinion/president-bannon.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&referer=https://t.co/xMlGNc95tb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 i think he has influenced trump from the beginning, to the point that trump made him campaign manager then his chief strategist, yeah. he clearly has trump's ear. Yeah he clearly does, but as has been claimed repeatedly on this thread, Trump listens to no one. I'm not sure we can have it both ways on this. I could see Bannon in a kind of Grima Wormtongue kind of role, but I'm not sure I see him as the man behind the curtain. I checked the holy war comment as well. Not quite sure if I'm picking it up the same way - he seems to have claimed that the Judeo-Christian Western society was in a near permanent state of war with Islam. I mean, I can see the reading of that as a 'Holy War' but I can also see the reading of it as a statement that Western liberal values should be protected. Is he a massively Christian guy? I dunno, I guess all of this is possible but I think all criticism should be aimed at Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29491 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Yeah he clearly does, but as has been claimed repeatedly on this thread, Trump listens to no one. I'm not sure we can have it both ways on this. I could see Bannon in a kind of Grima Wormtongue kind of role, but I'm not sure I see him as the man behind the curtain. I checked the holy war comment as well. Not quite sure if I'm picking it up the same way - he seems to have claimed that the Judeo-Christian Western society was in a near permanent state of war with Islam. I mean, I can see the reading of that as a 'Holy War' but I can also see the reading of it as a statement that Western liberal values should be protected. Is he a massively Christian guy? I dunno, I guess all of this is possible but I think all criticism should be aimed at Trump. It isn't about Trump wanting to listen to him, it's about Bannon being able to manipulate Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/opinion/president-bannon.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&referer=https://t.co/xMlGNc95tb Yeah that's a fair enough article. Becomes a little hyperbolic towards the end but the departing from tradition aspect of the NSC appointment is a worry. I'm not entirely sure that Bannon would be in a position to just insist he was on it though. He has no real power beyond that which Trump has given him. And I think for me, that suggests that he can't be the main power. Maybe you could argue that Bannon gave the power to Trump as well though. If Bannon is able to manipulate him that it makes the difference, but it's too grand a stage for him to operate with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 the fact that it's a role usually separated from politics is troubling. rove wasn't even allowed in on nsc meetings, during the dubya years. wtf is bannon doing on its principals committee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Bannon's tricky. Will get back to you later Gloomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It isn't about Trump wanting to listen to him, it's about Bannon being able to manipulate Trump. Manipulation based on what though? Trump was elected so Bannon offers him nothing now on that front. They've only worked together for 6 months so I can't imagine Trump trusts him particularly. What does Bannon have that could be used to control Trump? The only thing I can think of is a superior intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4650 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Manipulation based on what though? Trump was elected so Bannon offers him nothing now on that front. They've only worked together for 6 months so I can't imagine Trump trusts him particularly. What does Bannon have that could be used to control Trump? The only thing I can think of is a superior intellect. Why does it need to be anything else? We're talking manipulation here, not blackmail, he isn't forcing trump to do things, he is making him want to do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21302 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Watch the Bannon sound bites in that guardian video. Everything he was calling for has basically happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 This comment on the NYT article sums it up for me: "A sociopath whose stated goal is to "blow up Washington" as chief strategist / advisor for an infantile narcissist. What could possibly go wrong?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29491 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Manipulation based on what though? Trump was elected so Bannon offers him nothing now on that front. They've only worked together for 6 months so I can't imagine Trump trusts him particularly. What does Bannon have that could be used to control Trump? The only thing I can think of is a superior intellect. Name repetition, personality mirroring, and never breaking off a handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Fucking hell http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/house-votes-to-scrap-obama-rule-on-background-checks-for-gun-ownership-a7560421.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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