President Biden

[Rayvin 5165]

Jesus wept. Can anyone honestly believe what we're seeing unfold?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/airports-us-immigration-ban-muslim-countries-trump

 

I have to say I'm rather stunned that this policy was just flung into practice with no preparation and apparently no consideration on how it will work.

 

Obviously am also stunned that he's managed to get such a policy into place at all in fairness. We could be in for quite a ride.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

[Rayvin 5165]

Well if Israel's on board with it, it must be a good idea.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Well if Israel's on board with it, it must be a good idea.

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21802]

Know you're place, MSM. The alt-right are in the White House, bitches. It's fake news or no news from now on.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/steve-bannon-white-house-official-media-keep-mouth-shut-threat

[Rayvin 5165]

He seems to be suggesting that the media isn't listening to what the administration is saying and is just printing anything they can to discredit it. He's 100% right about the Guardian on that front but I suppose if the media are 'the opposition party' which actually makes sense given how invisible the democrats are presently, that's what you'd expect them to do. Kind of the same with how the media opposed Corbyn in this country, with the Tories needing to do basically nothing.

 

I don't think that's a threat to silence the media. I think that reading of it from the author is over the top. He specifically says 'the media need to shut their mouths and listen for a while'. The Guardian has run with 'the media need to shut their mouths'. His actual quote isn't as sensationalist. It does indicate that if we do go 'full fascist', the media is going to be one of the first things to go, however.

 

That said, I'm extremely concerned by news that all government employees are being prevented from talking about climate change and are having to do so through rogue twitter accounts and so on. For me, it sounds like Trump is running America like a company. You would expect a company to issue an edict banning discussions with the press, or the revealing of certain facts. Threats to the media are one thing, actually trying to control the narrative and discourse through the omission of information should be vehemently resisted irrespective of whether the government or the media are doing it.

[Dr Gloom 21802]

Open your eyes. There is no need to sensationalise anything that's coming out of DC right now.

 

Bannon said the media is now the Trump administration's main opposition party and has advised the press to remain silent. Trump accused CNN of being fake news and refused to answer their questions. He's also accused the media broadly of being dishonest and corrupt.

 

We are living in a new reality of "alternative facts" and blatant lies by the white house's chief press officer.

 

This is every bit as troubling as his nazi-like immigration policy.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5165]

Open your eyes. There is no need to sensationalise anything that's coming out of DC right now.

 

Bannon said the media is now the Trump administration's main opposition party and has advised the press to remain silent. Trump accused CNN of being fake news and refused to answer their questions. He's also accused the media broadly of being dishonest and corrupt.

 

We are living in a new reality of "alternative facts" and blatant lies by the white house's chief press officer.

 

This is every bit as troubling as his nazi-like immigration policy.

 

The immigration policy is certainly incredible but I'm struggling to feel much sympathy for the media. It's not like they've been shut down, they're reporting on him negatively every chance they get. With good reason I might add. When they're no longer able to do that, I'll worry about it. But can you honestly, in your wildest dreams, consider that Trump would get away with shutting down the free press? He has the lowest approval ratings of any president ever, no chance he'd get away with it. If the White House wants to peddle absolute fallacies they're going to get called out on it. Every time they do it. And not just by the media, by literally everyone. I really don't think this is the world ending scenario that many seem to think.

 

They sensationalised Bannon's quote, IMO. If there's no need to sensationalise, why do it? The pulling of funding for international groups who support abortions was another one. Every republican president that has gone before him has done that. The democrats come in and put it in, the republicans take it out. And yet we're told that this is Trump attacking women as if its an unprecedented move. Why? To sensationalise.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5165]

There's plenty of things he's doing that we need to object to - the immigration policy (which I still can't believe has been implemented as it was) and his ludicrous attempts to silence discussion on climate change. Other than those two, as far as I can remember, he hasn't done anything particularly noteworthy. 

 

I think what we're seeing at the moment is as bad as it'll get. It's the Tory modus operandi - do all the bad stuff straight off the bat, and then people will think more kindly of you when you do better stuff towards the end of the period.

 

This will be a fantastic opportunity in the long run, assuming we survive it. Trump is going to be so right wing, that millions of formerly stupid people will be prepared to vote left. And the left can go in, tear down his wall, open up the borders, enshrine something or other into the constitution so that 'this can never happen again' and hopefully, just maybe, they'll fix the fucking system. Trump might be the enemy we need to finally kill the establishment.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Rayvin

[Park Life 71]

Rayvin and Gloom are so disconnected from reality it's like a Pinter play in here.

[Rayvin 5165]

Rayvin and Gloom are so disconnected from reality it's like a Pinter play in here.

 

You don't think the left will be resurgent after this? I know you like to back the corporatists to control everything in the long run, but they've clearly not controlled Brexit - you said many times that they would somehow and yet, here we are, about to hard Brexit. Hillary lost to Trump ffs. They got owned in 2016 and I don't think by their own design. That means there are weaknesses. I don't think it's divorced from reality to expect that, if Trump is an utterly shit president, and cracks down on various freedoms, he'll be subject to an active left wing push back.

 

The only thing I can see allowing him to escape this, is if his policies actually do create jobs. If they do, the left is in trouble.

[Dr Gloom 21802]

Rayvin and Gloom are so disconnected from reality it's like a Pinter play in here.

Yeah, we're the ones disconnected from reality

[Park Life 71]

You don't think the left will be resurgent after this? I know you like to back the corporatists to control everything in the long run, but they've clearly not controlled Brexit - you said many times that they would somehow and yet, here we are, about to hard Brexit. Hillary lost to Trump ffs. They got owned in 2016 and I don't think by their own design. That means there are weaknesses. I don't think it's divorced from reality to expect that, if Trump is an utterly shit president, and cracks down on various freedoms, he'll be subject to an active left wing push back.

 

The only thing I can see allowing him to escape this, is if his policies actually do create jobs. If they do, the left is in trouble.

There is no left and right in America. It's a Corporate dictatorship. Funding rules ensure it.

[Park Life 71]

Yeah, we're the ones disconnected from reality

Your analysis on just about anything is 20 years out of date.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Park Life

[Rayvin 5165]

There is no left and right in America. It's a Corporate dictatorship. Funding rules ensure it.

 

What about Cenk's attempts to takeover the Democratic party? If that works it could be a game changer.

[Park Life 71]

What about Cenk's attempts to takeover the Democratic party? If that works it could be a game changer.

Corporate power it entrenched. I've always said that the next revolution will happen in America. Till then all these initiatives will falter against a wall of money and self-interest.

[Rayvin 5165]

Corporate power it entrenched. I've always said that the next revolution will happen in America. Till then all these initiatives will falter against a wall of money and self-interest.

 

Why couldn't we be at the point of the revolution now? It needed something radical to happen and tbf, Trump is ticking a lot of the boxes I would look for as the initiation of actual change.

[Park Life 71]

Why couldn't we be at the point of the revolution now? It needed something radical to happen and tbf, Trump is ticking a lot of the boxes I would look for as the initiation of actual change.

Revolution happens when there is no milk and bread in the shops.

 

I'm watching closely how far he gets with dismantling the trade deals....

Edited January 29, 2017 by Park Life

[Kid Dynamite 6986]

Theresa May looks weak as fuck off the back of all of this mind. Holding hands with Trump and licking his arse to try and get an ally whilst the whole of Europe fucks us off. Conveniently ignores that he's building walls and discriminating against entire races and religions. 24 hours later she has to release a statement suggesting perhaps its not proper to ban Muslims from travelling to the US

[Dr Gloom 21802]

Your analysis on just about anything is 20 years out of date.

 

rightho. i work in this reality. perhaps you should get back to your your reality of chemtrails and climate change denial. 

[Rayvin 5165]

Theresa May looks weak as fuck off the back of all of this mind. Holding hands with Trump and licking his arse to try and get an ally whilst the whole of Europe fucks us off. Conveniently ignores that he's building walls and discriminating against entire races and religions. 24 hours later she has to release a statement suggesting perhaps its not proper to ban Muslims from travelling to the US

 

That's about par for the course for her, mind. She's out of her depth really.

[Dr Gloom 21802]

There's plenty of things he's doing that we need to object to - the immigration policy (which I still can't believe has been implemented as it was) and his ludicrous attempts to silence discussion on climate change. Other than those two, as far as I can remember, he hasn't done anything particularly noteworthy. 

 

I think what we're seeing at the moment is as bad as it'll get. It's the Tory modus operandi - do all the bad stuff straight off the bat, and then people will think more kindly of you when you do better stuff towards the end of the period.

 

This will be a fantastic opportunity in the long run, assuming we survive it. Trump is going to be so right wing, that millions of formerly stupid people will be prepared to vote left. And the left can go in, tear down his wall, open up the borders, enshrine something or other into the constitution so that 'this can never happen again' and hopefully, just maybe, they'll fix the fucking system. Trump might be the enemy we need to finally kill the establishment.

 

trump is transforming the presidency. we are in completely uncharted waters with this loon in the white house. i fear the worst. hope i'm wrong, but you can hardly say his tone has softened or he's become more presidential since being sworn in, as many hoped. i don't think anyone expected half of the crazy shit he talked about on the campaign trail to actually happen but he's wasted no time laying the groundwork.

 

the immigration thing has a dystopian feeling about it; it's hard to believe it's actually happening or that it'll end well. he may not have shut the media down (yet) but he is openly going to war with it, attempting to discredit credible news organisations, while his staff are told to spread obvious lies. 

 

just look back at what he's done in his first 7 days ffs. has it really just been a week?

 

- continued to spread dangerous falsehoods that delegitimise the US electoral system 

 

- laid the groundwork for a trade war - and potentially a second great depression.

 

- signed an immigration executive order that wouldn't look out of place in nazi germany

 

- banned funding for global aid organisations that provide abortions - right on

 

- actually going ahead with his batshit crazy mexico border wall idea, and effectively ceased short term relations with his mexican counterpart. a great example of his scattergun twitter diplomacy

 

- revived the keystone pipeline - great news for the fossil fuel industry, not so much for the environment

 

- praised the use of torture and insisted waterboarding works. 

 

the free world is now being steered by a hot-headed, narcissistic demagogue, whose politics feed on fear and bigotry. give me a shout if you want more 20 year old analysis, yeah?

[Sonatine 11306]

[Happy Face 29]

trump is transforming the presidency. we are in completely uncharted waters with this loon in the white house. i fear the worst. hope i'm wrong, but you can hardly say his tone has softened or he's become more presidential since being sworn in, as many hoped. i don't think anyone expected half of the crazy shit he talked about on the campaign trail to actually happen but he's wasted no time laying the groundwork.

 

the immigration thing has a dystopian feeling about it; it's hard to believe it's actually happening or that it'll end well. he may not have shut the media down (yet) but he is openly going to war with it, attempting to discredit credible news organisations, while his staff are told to spread obvious lies. 

 

just look back at what he's done in his first 7 days ffs. has it really just been a week?

 

- continued to spread dangerous falsehoods that delegitimise the US electoral system 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/

 

- laid the groundwork for a trade war - and potentially a second great depression.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/trade-wars-and-food-wars-obama-and-the-agribusiness-monopolies/5546767

 

- signed an immigration executive order that wouldn't look out of place in nazi germany

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/18/the-obama-administration-stopped-processing-iraq-refugee-requests-for-6-months-in-2011/

 

- banned funding for global aid organisations that provide abortions - right on

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/02/14/obama-cuts-foreign-assistance-to-several-countries-in-new-budget-request/

 

- actually going ahead with his batshit crazy mexico border wall idea, and effectively ceased short term relations with his mexican counterpart. a great example of his scattergun twitter diplomacy

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-deported-record-number-immigrants-trump-claim-article-1.2774180

 

- revived the keystone pipeline - great news for the fossil fuel industry, not so much for the environment

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-keystone-pipeline-approval-2013-2?IR=T

 

- praised the use of torture and insisted waterboarding works. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/09/bush-torture-waterboarding

 

the free world is now being steered by a hot-headed, narcissistic demagogue, whose politics feed on fear and bigotry. give me a shout if you want more 20 year old analysis, yeah?

 

I don't want this to come across as a renunciation of your point, because it's very valid to criticise the massive dangers that Trump represents, but for me, it's only to the extent that he exacerbates issues that have already had the groundwork laid by previous presidents.  Trump is exercising the powers given to him by predecessors who never considered what they were legitimizing and for who.  It's them who changed the nature of it.  In addition to the above, Trump can assassinate American citizens without accusation of a crime, charge or trial, anywhere in the world.  He can also bomb or send troops to any country he likes without congressional approval.  People who refused to criticise THEIR side when they did it are deligitimized when it comes to extolling the dangers of Trump.

[Rayvin 5165]

At the risk of needing to 'get a room' with HF again, that's a fucking good post

 

I would also add that the wall and pipeline will support job creation and investment in the economy, thus offering a potential growth outlet.

 

Also, I think I read that fewer Mexicans than ever are even going into the US illegally. On that basis, it's an empty gesture anyway (beyond investment in the regions the wall will cover).