President Biden

[The Fish 10689]

tl;dr democracy would be great if it wasn't for the people.

Churchill said it better than me, but yeah.

[Rayvin 5166]

No, I'm not saying they consider something unfair and support it anyway, I'm saying they don't consider it. They frankly don't give a shit that the overwhelming majority of muslims are not bomb wielding lunatics, they couldn't give a shit that foreign aid can actually provide jobs and customers for domestic companies, they couldn't give a shit about a whole heap of stuff. Certainly not enough to learn more than what the commercial news station that pushes their political party's agenda is telling them.

 

Generally the voting public are wilfully ignorant, reactionary arseholes and shouldn't decide what happens to a country any more than the weaselling dickheads they vote into power to represent them.

 

Ah but when you start saying that (and I agree with you) then your faith in the whole establishment has to go. You're basically saying democracy doesn't work as it should do and isn't a good method of governance. Which is true, although I concede that it remains perhaps the least bad of all political options - with the exception of a well executed benevolent dictatorship.

 

EDIT - as Meenz says

Edited January 26, 2017 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21804]

torture mother fucker, torture. i'll fucking ... sew your asshole closed and keep feeding you and feeding you and feeding you....

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-tells-abc-news-david-muir-absolutely/story?id=45045055

[The Fish 10689]

Ah but when you start saying that (and I agree with you) then your faith in the whole establishment has to go. You're basically saying democracy doesn't work as it should do and isn't a good solution of governance. Which is true, although I concede that it remains perhaps the least bad of all political options - with the exception of a well executed benevolent dictatorship.

 

EDIT - as Meenz says

 

Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others.

 

I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't.

 

I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes.

 

Drives me mad.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

does waterboarding work?

 

trump - "absolutely it works"

 

he has a point. it's a pretty much guaranteed way to extract a confession. 

[Rayvin 5166]

Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others.

 

I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't.

 

I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes.

 

Drives me mad.

 

I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%.

[Happy Face 29]

Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others.

 

I think democracy is brilliant if everyone is playing by the rules, but they aren't, so it's horseshit. Democracy works if the populous are voting after consideration and for the betterment of society and themselves, but they aren't.

 

I love my better half and she's intelligent and all the rest of it, but she votes Tory because she always has. My sisters vote Labour because they always have and that's what my Dad votes.

 

Drives me mad.

 

Democracy doesn't fail because people vote the wrong way.  It fails because it quickly becomes a stagnat pool of self interested elitists that stifle debates to a very narrow received wisdom, and work for the richest in society rather than the poorest.

 

...a bit like communism.

[Alex 34801]

Does Fish have a lass then?

[The Fish 10689]

Does Fish have a lass then?

fuck off man, she's real and everything. Martin's met her.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

it's one of this board's great unanswered questions, along with: what is j69's profession? has gemmill ever moved house? and how does CT maintain a 32" waist on a duck pizza and margarine diet? 

[The Fish 10689]

I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%.

 

Or people had to vote for policies, unaware of the party that has submitted them.

 

Democracy doesn't fail because people vote the wrong way.  It fails because it quickly becomes a stagnat pool of self interested elitists that stifle debates to a very narrow received wisdom, and work for the richest in society rather than the poorest.

 

...a bit like communism.

 

If the populous had the wherewithal to see through that obvious obfuscation that pool wouldn't be permitted to stagnate as often or as quickly.

[NJS 4368]

I've wondered in the past if there should be some manner of mandatory politics test prior to voting. You'd have to write down the policies of various parties and how they would affect you. Something that would force people to consider what they're voting for. Turnout would be like 5% but at least it'd be an informed 5%.

Yes but I'd worry about "affect you". As I've said before there should be an element of voting for what you think is the greater good beyond your individual lot.

[Rayvin 5166]

Or people had to vote for policies, unaware of the party that has submitted them.

 

 

 

Analysis has been done on this (and I've lamented it previously). If the public are offered policies, the Greens end up in power. At least in this country. The Tories are a distant third or fourth, I think.

 

Yes but I'd worry about "affect you". As I've said before there should be an element of voting for what you think is the greater good beyond your individual lot.

 

Well yes but with that comment I was broadly speaking about the people who vote against their own interests out of ignorance. I would still expect the socially conscious to vote against their own interests out of altruism.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

one for @@Happy Face

 

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[Happy Face 29]

 

If the populous had the wherewithal to see through that obvious obfuscation that pool wouldn't be permitted to stagnate as often or as quickly.

 

I think the hardest hit do have the wherewithall.  Many that wouldn't pass a policy test if they had to take it before voting still know well enough that they've had fuck all to cheer in decades and they've turned to Corbyn, Trump, Sanders, Farage, Brexit etc in response to that.  Anything but what we have.

 

It's the entrenched political class who seem disgusted by  these upstart movements.  The educated classes seem to think it will be catastrophic and we MUST stick with the status quo so that everyone doesn't end up in the bottom of the barrel with the have nots.

[Happy Face 29]

one for @@Happy Face

 

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Ungrateful for being locked up and tortured most of her adult life.

 

I'm impresssed he actually used her chosen name.  Would have expected him to take the politically incorrect approach of sticking with Bradley.  That's how low the bar is for Trump.

[Rayvin 5166]

I think the hardest hit do have the wherewithall.  Many that wouldn't pass a policy test if they had to take it before voting still know well enough that they've had fuck all to cheer in decades and they've turned to Corbyn, Trump, Sanders, Farage, Brexit etc in response to that.  Anything but what we have.

 

It's the entrenched political class who seem disgusted by  these upstart movements.  The educated classes seem to think it will be catastrophic and we MUST stick with the status quo so that everyone doesn't end up in the bottom of the barrel with the have nots.

 

Well said. I do love your posts.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

 

Ungrateful for being locked up and tortured most of her adult life.

 

I'm impresssed he actually used her chosen name.  Would have expected him to take the politically incorrect approach of sticking with Bradley.  That's how low the bar is for Trump.

 

Terrible!

[Dr Gloom 21804]

Well said. I do love your posts.

 

get a room, you sycophant 

[Rayvin 5166]

 

I'm not the one who was at the Davos meeting last week.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

holding the global elite to account! hacks are quite a way down the food chain there, as you can imagine

[Rayvin 5166]

 

I suppose it does need reporting on. I hope you made the most of the free caviar and champagne that was no doubt on offer.

[Dr Gloom 21804]

you should have seen the state of the food in the media centre man  

[Happy Face 29]

Mr Trump [who said waterboarding works] also said he would consult Defence Secretary James Mattis and CIA director Mike Pompeo and "if they don't want to do it that's fine".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000

 

Not very presidential

[Rayvin 5166]

I noticed McCain has come out and said he'll vote against the introduction of torture. It might not get through Senate, that one.