President Biden

[Rayvin 5166]

What justification has he given for those two to remain viable?

[Dr Gloom 21803]

 

Anybody who clicked on @@Anorthernsoul link a few pages back.

Sorry, missed that. HT ANS

[ewerk 30230]

What justification has he given for those two to remain viable?

 

He actually spoke at length on the issue in a calm and dignified tone and gave a surprisingly well thought out and rational explanation for it.

Edited January 26, 2017 by ewerk

[ewerk 30230]

[Gemmill 44304]

The Intercept has a podcast now. First episode is out and worth a listen. It's not for members of the mainstream media though.

[Dr Gloom 21803]

The 650 miles of fencing already put up has cost the government more than $7 billion, and none of it could be described, even charitably, as impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, or beautiful.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37243269

 

[Rayvin 5166]

The Intercept has a podcast now. First episode is out and worth a listen. It's not for members of the mainstream media though.

 

 

I'll have to look that up.

[Rayvin 5166]

The 650 miles of fencing already put up has cost the government more than $7 billion, and none of it could be described, even charitably, as impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, or beautiful.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37243269

 

 

I was thinking about this last night - say it costs $50bn to build the stupid thing. That could be argued to be a Keynesian economic stimulus couldn't it? So we'd have a right wing leader propagating right wing views and getting the desired outcome of an economic boost, job creation and a performing economy. Which will only serve to further legitimise his position.

[Meenzer 15372]

That's kinda what they do, yeah.

[Rayvin 5166]

That's kinda what they do, yeah.

 

Yes but the point is that we seem to be laughing at him for how stupid he is, and yet this fucking wall actually looks like it could be built and lauded as a success. At which point, presumably Trump will be laughing at us.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Rayvin

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

I was thinking about this last night - say it costs $50bn to build the stupid thing. That could be argued to be a Keynesian economic stimulus couldn't it? So we'd have a right wing leader propagating right wing views and getting the desired outcome of an economic boost, job creation and a performing economy. Which will only serve to further legitimise his position.

Except all the experts reckon he'll have to buy at least 50% of the concrete from Mexico and hire the cheapest "Mexican" labour. So actually he'll start building a wall which will go way over budget and benefit Mexico the most. I say start because he won't get a second term and whoever comes in will knock the stupid wall straight on the head.

[Meenzer 15372]

In fairness, the autobahns are pretty ace too.

[Rayvin 5166]

In fairness, the autobahns are pretty ace too.

 

I do get what you're alluding to - what I'm saying is that our current response to it runs the risk of voiding our credibility. By 'our' I mean civilised, left wing society.

[Rayvin 5166]

Except all the experts reckon he'll have to buy at least 50% of the concrete from Mexico and hire the cheapest "Mexican" labour. So actually he'll start building a wall which will go way over budget and benefit Mexico the most. I say start because he won't get a second term and whoever comes in will knock the stupid wall straight on the head.

 

This is more encouraging. But even so, that's a lot of investment in the US as well as Mexico, and he'll likely still suggest that it's beneficial. What if the project ends up employing thousands of Americans? Does the incoming president destroy all those jobs? It's potentially a tough one unless we elect a left wing populist. Which we won't do.

 

He is unlikely to get a second term though, agreed there. Not even sure he'll live long enough for one given his age.

[Meenzer 15372]

Lots of morally repugnant things are financially successful. I still think it's okay to call them morally repugnant.

[Dr Gloom 21803]

I was thinking about this last night - say it costs $50bn to build the stupid thing. That could be argued to be a Keynesian economic stimulus couldn't it? So we'd have a right wing leader propagating right wing views and getting the desired outcome of an economic boost, job creation and a performing economy. Which will only serve to further legitimise his position.

 

i was pointing more to the fact he thinks the wall is going to be beautiful.

 

but yes, his investment plans will go down with some of sanders' supporters. it's the neo fascist stuff, combined with his plans to start a nuclear arms race, kick off a trade war with china while implementing de-regulation and tax cuts for the wealthy and companies that is more of a concern. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Dr Gloom

[ewerk 30230]

I assume he's going to need congressional approval to spend $50bn on a wall?

[Rayvin 5166]

Lots of morally repugnant things are financially successful. I still think it's okay to call them morally repugnant.

 

But it's the narrative that matters. As ever. It's the narrative that will allow him to perpetuate further morally repugnant things. His narrative gains in credibility as he succeeds.

 

I just feel like we're playing this wrong. We're staking everything on him being a total fuck up and this wall thing considered as an economic factor is a worry. As is the Dow Jones reaching record levels. What if he isn't a fuck up?

[Rayvin 5166]

I assume he's going to need congressional approval to spend $50bn on a wall?

 

I pulled that figure out of thin air tbf, but yes, you'd hope so. Would they deny him it though?

[Meenzer 15372]

But it's the narrative that matters. As ever. It's the narrative that will allow him to perpetuate further morally repugnant things. His narrative gains in credibility as he succeeds.

 

I just feel like we're playing this wrong. We're staking everything on him being a total fuck up and this wall thing considered as an economic factor is a worry. As is the Dow Jones reaching record levels. What if he isn't a fuck up?

 

Then we're all fucked anyway.

[Rayvin 5166]

Then we're all fucked anyway.

 

 

My, that's encouraging.

 

I think he could still be resisted but it would require the left to develop some real intelligence about the matter. The last game in town (in my view) is to attack income inequality and look at economic factors. If Trump goes ahead and corners that one, I um... yeah we probably are fucked.

[ewerk 30230]

I pulled that figure out of thin air tbf, but yes, you'd hope so. Would they deny him it though?

 

Washington Post reckons $25bn. I'd imagine that there will be near universal democratic opposition to the plan and there may be enough deficit hawks on the republican side to put paid to it.

Edited January 26, 2017 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5166]

Washington Post reckons $25bn. I'd imagine that there will be near universal democratic opposition to the plan and there may be enough deficit hawks on the republican side to put paid to it.

 

Possible. Or maybe it could be used to win compromises on other things at the very least. Like the reintroduction of torture.

 

The thing is though, I don't trust Republicans all that much. I think they could see this as a lasting vote winner as the Democrats will have to campaign each election on the promise of tearing it down.

[Alex 34795]

It's going to be brilliant when the inquiry comes back with no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

Well if there is evidence of it then it calls into question the legitimacy of his victory. It's basically lose-lose for him on this one. The fuckwit

[Rayvin 5166]

Well if there is evidence of it then it calls into question the legitimacy of his victory. It's basically lose-lose for him on this one. The fuckwit

 

Yeah it's a totally pointless battleground actually. No one is seriously suggesting that he be removed from power off the back of the popular vote, so why even bother with it. I've heard some people suggest that all the crazy shit he does like this is just to distract from the damaging things but I don't think he's smart enough for that.