Promotion

[David Kelly 1280]

Last night I thought he was everything we want him to be.  He was holding the ball up well and bringing others into play (something that I think would benefit Gayle), he was unselfish at the right times (ie for Diame's miss and attempting to play in Atsu for Diame's first goal), his finishing was pretty good and his hunger and effort was very apparent.  You can say that his booking was daft but bookings for players taking their shirt off still happen all the time and no one makes anything of it (it's also a ridiculous rule).  His desire to take the penalty is perfectly understandable (especially as he took and scored one last season) and I thought he reacted well when it didn't go his way.

If it wasn't for that sending off against Spurs I think he'd have played a lot more this season (not just because he wouldn't have had the ban).  I understand that he has to prove to Rafa that he can be trusted but I can't say that I saw anything last night to suggest he can't be.  And I think giving him more game time will just make him all the more hungry and see him perform much better.  A couple of minutes here and there is more likely to piss him off than push him on IMO.

[Howay 12496]

Agree with all of that DK, I think Gayle would really excel alongside him. He can be a risk due to his aggressive style of play but sometimes players need that, I think part of the reason Rooney is so ineffective now is that managers have worked hard to take that aggression and passion out of his game that he had when he was younger.

 

I think Diame finally made a good case for himself last night mind, I've been critical of him but he put on a good show. I do think that while he did operate just off Mitro he showed signs he'd be more effective in CM, some of his control when he dropped deep was good to see as he shielded the ball and took attention away from the CM's before passing to a wide open Hayden or Shelvey, then both of his goals came from longer range where he was arriving late and coming onto something like a CM would while his miss is more indicative of the positions he has been in and chances he has been missing playing off the striker.

[Rayvin 5572]

Agree with all of that DK, I think Gayle would really excel alongside him. He can be a risk due to his aggressive style of play but sometimes players need that, I think part of the reason Rooney is so ineffective now is that managers have worked hard to take that aggression and passion out of his game that he had when he was younger.

 

I think Diame finally made a good case for himself last night mind, I've been critical of him but he put on a good show. I do think that while he did operate just off Mitro he showed signs he'd be more effective in CM, some of his control when he dropped deep was good to see as he shielded the ball and took attention away from the CM's before passing to a wide open Hayden or Shelvey, then both of his goals came from longer range where he was arriving late and coming onto something like a CM would while his miss is more indicative of the positions he has been in and chances he has been missing playing off the striker.

 

Good analysis

[The Fish 11076]

Agree with Howay and DK's assessments. 

 

re: the Mitro thing, I've never seen him moping, in fact, every time we score the big mad bastard streaks down the pitch to go celebrate with the lads. Hardly the behaviour of a Sulky Serb.

 

To be honest, I think Mitro is suffering a backlash; his pashun and rhetoric won over a lot of casual fans and a lot of the younger crowd too, older more cynical seem to take umbrage at this and insist he's done nothing to deserve this adoration.

 

The truth lies somewhere in between, he's a decent young striker who's only got an ok goal return, whose discipline record at St James' isn't brilliant (a lot of his cards have been reputation cards imo) and whose attitude has been exemplary.

 

I'd start him against Preston, if he scores again, or even if he just has another excellent game it gives Rafa a nice headache.

[David Kelly 1280]

He was warming up near our support down at Barnsley and he seemed to have a smile on his face the whole time.  Definitely wasn't sulking.  He's passionate about playing whether for us or in general and I don't think there's anything wrong with that all.

 

He reminds me a bit of Gazza.  Obviously he doesn't have the same talent but he does seem to be similarly daft.  Pulling that kids hair on tuesday night did remind of some of the silly things Gazza did.  It's not very bad at all but it's also the type of thing that can get him in trouble and I can't see Rafa liking it.

[Rayvin 5572]

I hope he comes good in the end. I think he could make the step back up into the PL, he just needs a run of games to get into the flow of things. That said, if it's not going to work, we'll know by the end of the season. I could definitely see a PL team like West Brom or someone picking him up if we don't want him.

[PaddockLad 17940]

My thinking is pretty much the same as PaddockLad's.  I just expect something bad to happen sooner or later but I have to admit, at the moment though I can't see what it can be.  

I think we can now

[David Kelly 1280]

I think we can now

That certainly wasn't something I could have ever expected. Mind you with the standard of refereeing in this league maybe I should have.

I think this might galvanise us mind. Fancy us for another long unbeaten run now.

[aimaad22 4371]

Aye, and it might not be the worst thing for this group of players to go through some tough times. See what they're made of. Showed a bit of character in this game.

[Rayvin 5572]

At least Brighton did us a favour. If this week is as bad as it gets and we're still top, we're doing alright.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Rayvin

[The Fish 11076]

My worry is how we'll play without Shelvey. He's been integral for much of the season and other players like Ritchie, Diame, Perez and Mitrovic have failed to show their class so far.

[Dr Gloom 22518]

get diame breaking from deep. 

[Dr Gloom 22518]

i just hope we don't revert to two defensive mids, like colback/hayden/anita

[The Fish 11076]

get diame breaking from deep. 

 

Most logical choice, but he's not been great and it'll mean we have to play Perez in the number 10 role.

[David Kelly 1280]

Most logical choice, but he's not been great and it'll mean we have to play Perez in the number 10 role.

Or playing Mitro and Gayle.

One thing I did take from Friday was that when we tried to attack them to get the equaliser, we still looked like we could create even without Shelvey and only having nine men.  Not having Shelvey will be a blow but I think we can get by without him.

[Dr Gloom 22518]

These forest fans on twitter are something else like. No interest in any discussion about the game beyond "you've never won fook all"

[Dr Gloom 22518]

Diame looks more suited to a deeper role, joining the forwards in the box later in the play. He's not a second striker. I wouldn't mind seeing Rafa go mitro and Gayle up top and drop the number 10 role for the odd game altogether but I don't think it's in his DNA to play two out and out strikers.

[The Fish 11076]

These forest fans on twitter are something else like. No interest in any discussion about the game beyond "you've never won fook all"

 

That's because they know they haven't a leg to stand on.

 

Diame looks more suited to a deeper role, joining the forwards in the box later in the play. He's not a second striker. I wouldn't mind seeing Rafa go mitro and Gayle up top and drop the number 10 role for the odd game altogether but I don't think it's in his DNA to play two out and out strikers.

 

The worry though is that Diame's use of the ball is pretty selfish, he doesn't create for others, he drives with the ball into a dangerous area whereas Shelvey affects the spread and speed of a game. 

 

Agree that it's unlikely we'll see 4-4-2 under Rafa.

[Dr Gloom 22518]

It'll be a totally different style of play without shelvey there. He's the only deep lying playmaker we have. And there aren't many players around like him.

[Dr Gloom 22518]

Don't think we have many options other than playing diame in there, in other words. It's that or two defensive midfielders and diame or Perez ahead of them - I hope we don't do that. We're good enough to play on the front foot in this division.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Dr Gloom

[Monkeys Fist 43589]

Not sure if this has already been posted elsewhere?

 

Cathro has left the club to take up Head Coach position at Hearts

 

Ian Cathro: Hearts announce new head coach

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38202975

[Rayvin 5572]

Reckon we'll be pushing it out wide without Shelvey. Diame can perhaps have a role to play there in arriving late into the box since he can hit them from a way out, but we'll be far less penetrating overall IMO.

 

Also suspect we'll have to play Mitro more if we're going for crosses from the flanks. Hard to see how we make the most of Gayle with that system given that our wingers aren't pacy enough to break forward and whip it in for him. We'll likely be crossing into a congested penalty area.

[Rayvin 5572]

Not sure if this has already been posted elsewhere?

 

Cathro has left the club to take up Head Coach position at Hearts

 

Ian Cathro: Hearts announce new head coach

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38202975

 

It was rumoured a little while ago but no, hadn't seen confirmation. It's a shame I guess but I hadn't been personally convinced of his importance other than someone pointing out that if Rafa has kept him on it must be with good reason. That could just have been player familiarity though.

[Andrew 4966]

Rafa lost his original assistant manager with us a while ago to a managerial role iirc.

[Dr Gloom 22518]

Cathro struck me as a continuity appointment by Rafa. Otherwise it was an entirely new backroom staff. Don't think we need to lose too much sleep about him going.