Vladimir Putin and Russia

[Dr Gloom 21911]

Just now, Ken said:

We have imposed sanctions and frozen assets of those close to Putin. But you must understand we are a tiny player in matters like this despite talking big. It won't affect Russia at all

I was only teasing. Can you send your fast bowlers to the front line please? 

[Renton 21557]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

This is where to belatedly start....NATO should surround Kallinigrad with 4 military divisions...

 

 

 

I was looking at his on a map yesterday, which led me to read up on the history of the situation. Fascinating, I never knew Russia had an enclave in the heart of Europe. 

[Ken 119]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I was only teasing. Can you send your fast bowlers to the front line please? 

Better to send the wasters in your team. Of which there are many 😉

[Rayvin 5217]

Ukraine is gone IMO, the best we can hope is that he conquers it with minimal bloodshed.

 

Western policy on this has failed absolutely. Bluff has been called, and the vacuum of US withdrawal from global leadership awaits.

 

As if Putin was going to be stopped by sanctions when he'd moved 200,000 troops to the border. All priced in.

 

I work with a programmer in Dnipro. He messaged this morning to say he could hear explosions and his city was under martial law. Dnipro is on the other side of the country to the contested region ffs, and is a civilian target, surely?

 

No bullshit reason Russia can give is worth this.

[ewerk 30535]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I wonder how much can be compensated for by re-routing energy supplies, what the scope is? I can see the cause for Scottish independence and NUFC getting significant boosts. 

 

It would take decades. Oil prices from alternative sources would go through the roof. Most of the Russian gas comes via pipeline for there is simply no immediate substitute for that.

[PaddockLad 17238]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I was looking at his on a map yesterday, which led me to read up on the history of the situation. Fascinating, I never knew Russia had an enclave in the heart of Europe. 

 

Nuts isn't it?  NATO have got to get going.  Doing nothing is a disaster. Attacking Kallinigrad is a disaster too but doing nothing isn't an option now. Its war, literally...

[Toonpack 9377]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

Russia supplies nearly half of the EU gas and oil. How is it possible to stop that without fucking an entire continent?

 

Russia supplies less than 30% of EU oil and around 60% of EU gas, gas accounts for one fifth of European energy demands, so Russia supplies 60% of one fifth of the need.

 

As a continent I think I'd rather suffer economic harm for a short period than physical harm from a military action.

[Renton 21557]

Btw, anyonw who calls it Ki-ev is a russian stooge. The Ukrainian call it "Keith" from what I can make out on the BBC news. Prayers for Keith. 

[Renton 21557]

1 minute ago, Toonpack said:

 

Russia supplies less than 30% of EU oil and around 60% of EU gas, gas accounts for one fifth of European energy demands, so Russia supplies 60% of one fifth of the need.

 

As a continent I think I'd rather suffer economic harm for a short period than physical harm from a military action.

3 day week will sort it. 

[wykikitoon 20110]

 

 

[wykikitoon 20110]

I wonder if the CL final will still be played in St Peteresburg 

[ewerk 30535]

4 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Russia supplies less than 30% of EU oil and around 60% of EU gas, gas accounts for one fifth of European energy demands, so Russia supplies 60% of one fifth of the need.

 

As a continent I think I'd rather suffer economic harm for a short period than physical harm from a military action.

 

What makes you think it would be for a short period? Nukes aside there is no option for a short war with Russia.

 

We're not just talking about businesses that rely on oil and gas but people who need it to heat their homes. It would cause turmoil on a worldwide scale.

[ewerk 30535]

1 minute ago, wykikitoon said:

I wonder if the CL final will still be played in St Peteresburg 

 

I dunno, UEFA seem pretty relaxed about it all.

 

 

[Renton 21557]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

What makes you think it would be for a short period? Nukes aside there is no option for a short war with Russia.

 

We're not just talking about businesses that rely on oil and gas but people who need it to heat their homes. It would cause turmoil on a worldwide scale.

We're almost in spring thankfully, gives us a bit of time. In the meantime a concerted effort from the West can totally fuck Russia economically. 

[Toonpack 9377]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

3 day week will sort it. 

 

We could sort it, our pipelines to EU are running at around 17% capacity, increase gas from Norway although that's pretty maxed out (80-odd percent) we could take LNG from US (they'd take our eyes out, but have shit-tons of the stuff) and send our North Sea output to Eu, taking their eye's out in the process.

 

It's be messy and costly, but what price a few cities raised to the ground.

 

Russian economy would tank WAY before significant European harm.

[Renton 21557]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I dunno, UEFA seem pretty relaxed about it all.

 

 

 

Taken down already!

 

[Toonpack 9377]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

What makes you think it would be for a short period? Nukes aside there is no option for a short war with Russia.

 

We're not just talking about businesses that rely on oil and gas but people who need it to heat their homes. It would cause turmoil on a worldwide scale.

 

That's why you have to do everything in your power to avoid a full on war with Russia. Full on war potentially damages you irreparably in economic terms, you take shorter term hit to try and avoid full on war, full on war is the worst possible outcome.

 

You take the hit on your terms not on Putin's, he hasn't and probably won't turn the tap off because he needs the money it generates.

 

Only way this ends moderately well is to squeeze him at home and hope he gets toppled.

 

He's like Johnson, surrounded by less than brilliant lickspittle's who've clung to his coat tails, he is politically vulnerable in Russia.

[PaddockLad 17238]

17 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

It would take decades. Oil prices from alternative sources would go through the roof. Most of the Russian gas comes via pipeline for there is simply no immediate substitute for that.

 

I think I heard the other day thst Russia only accounts for 3% of UK gas imports. We get most from Qatar,  who after our massive investment in tankers & storage facilities at Milford Haven in Wales are now selling most of what used to come to us to China, which is the main reason we're fucked too. Europe is a whole different story. The taps will be turned off very soon I think...

[Ken 119]

Quote

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-russia-china-agree-30-year-gas-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/

 

[Ken 119]

It all seems too coordinated for me

[Toonpack 9377]

2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

I think I heard the other day thst Russia only accounts for 3% of UK gas imports. We get most from Qatar,  who after our massive investment in tankers & storage facilities at Milford Haven in Wales are now selling most of what used to come to us to China, which is the main reason we're fucked too. Europe is a whole different story. The taps will be turned off very soon I think...

 

Disagree mate, Europe is basically funding Putin's expedition in Ukraine because of that pipeline. He turns off the tap he turns off the cash.

[Ken 119]

It isn't Europe anymore that Russia relies on. They have got China to diversify. Check mate Putin

[ewerk 30535]

13 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

That's why you have to do everything in your power to avoid a full on war with Russia. Full on war potentially damages you irreparably in economic terms, you take shorter term hit to try and avoid full on war, full on war is the worst possible outcome.

 

You take the hit on your terms not on Putin's, he hasn't and probably won't turn the tap off because he needs the money it generates.

 

Only way this ends moderately well is to squeeze him at home and hope he gets toppled.

 

He's like Johnson, surrounded by less than brilliant lickspittle's who've clung to his coat tails, he is politically vulnerable in Russia.

 

This is an interesting article that supports your position: https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/01/29/how-will-europe-cope-if-russia-cuts-off-its-gas

 

I'm not sure I agree fully with it but the most likely outcome it suggests is that we won't be short of oil and gas, it'll just cost a fuck tonne more than it does now. Which is already very high.

[Renton 21557]

12 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

He's like Johnson, surrounded by less than brilliant lickspittle's who've clung to his coat tails, he is politically vulnerable in Russia.

 

The similarities are remarkable. Not just Johnson either, Trump, Orban, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Jinping. Pathetic popularist shit bags ruining the World. It's time for a matriarchy to sort this mess out. 

[Dr Gloom 21911]

39 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Because I still can't get my head around why. It doesn't strike me as a rational action, I was assuming Putin was a rational actor. If he isn't, I hope he can be taken out from within. I see now why he had long tables. 

 

russia is run by an unstable madman who is intent on restoring his country to pre-soviet imperial greatness. he's a nutter. there is no rational thought behind it. 

 

i'm personally looking forward to the stop the war demo in front of the russian embassy this morning. corbyn's peace and justice movement was as of monday still calling on the us and the uk to stop warmongering. you couldn't make it up.