Vladimir Putin and Russia

[aimaad22 4088]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

He is the winner, in that scenario. Rewarded for his aggression. I guess that's what we accept in this world though.

 

I get why it would be very disappointing, but isn't that's what happened pretty much throughout history? 

 

Ukraine may be more important then Syria and Yemen but it's still no France or England. We've always but value on human blood and we always will. 

[aimaad22 4088]

Here's the next major right-wing nut job that most are still coddling up:

 

 

[Rayvin 5151]

4 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

I get why it would be very disappointing, but isn't that's what happened pretty much throughout history? 

 

Ukraine may be more important then Syria and Yemen but it's still no France or England. We've always but value on human blood and we always will. 

 

I felt, possibly stupidly, that Russia was doing some good in Syria. As opposed to any NATO alliance and entry into the conflict which I was firmly opposed to. Maybe I was wrong, I don't know anymore.

 

I do care about Yemen. I care about Ethiopia too, whose war/ethnic cleansing is exacerbated by the food shortages that all this is causing. I would oppose it all if I could. You're right though, that Ukraine 'feels' closer. One of the consequences of Brexit was that I lost a great deal of my sense of identity - I ceased to be British European and became British and European - arguably more on the European side. So for me, this feels very close to what an invasion of Britain would feel like. Not quite the same, but really pretty close. I struggle to understand why a treaty makes the lives of people in Ukraine less than those of Romania, or here.

 

Ultimately though, I believe that imperialism should be resisted and forcibly stopped wherever it occurs. I will feel the same when China takes Taiwan. And the same if the US is ever stupid enough go for something like Iraq again.

[Rayvin 5151]

1 minute ago, aimaad22 said:

Here's the next major right-wing nut job that most are still coddling up:

 

 

 

I hear a lot about Modi because my closest friend is an Indian guy - keeps up to date with a lot of the political stuff. Hates Modi but a lot of his family really back the guy, think he's making India strong etc. He's been in power for a while though at this stage, no?

[aimaad22 4088]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I felt, possibly stupidly, that Russia was doing some good in Syria. As opposed to any NATO alliance and entry into the conflict which I was firmly opposed to. Maybe I was wrong, I don't know anymore.

 

I do care about Yemen. I care about Ethiopia too, whose war/ethnic cleansing is exacerbated by the food shortages that all this is causing. I would oppose it all if I could. You're right though, that Ukraine 'feels' closer. One of the consequences of Brexit was that I lost a great deal of my sense of identity - I ceased to be British European and became British and European - arguably more on the European side. So for me, this feels very close to what an invasion of Britain would feel like. Not quite the same, but really pretty close. I struggle to understand why a treaty makes the lives of people in Ukraine less than those of Romania, or here.

 

Ultimately though, I believe that imperialism should be resisted and forcibly stopped wherever it occurs. I will feel the same when China takes Taiwan. And the same if the US is ever stupid enough go for something like Iraq again.

 

Yeah fair enough mate, I'm more saying it is what it is rather than questioning why.  It's the same in the East now. I said this somewhere earlier on in this thread. This war has exposed that. A lot of people raising voices for Syria or Palestine wont do the same for Ukraine because we associate less with them. Perhaps its natural, but we need to do better. 

 

Forming organizations like the UN doesn't seemed to have helped much, hijacked by the same power players that cause most of these conflicts in the first place. 

[Rayvin 5151]

2 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

Yeah fair enough mate, I'm more saying it is what it is rather than questioning why.  It's the same in the East now. I said this somewhere earlier on in this thread. This war has exposed that. A lot of people raising voices for Syria or Palestine wont do the same for Ukraine because we associate less with them. Perhaps its natural, but we need to do better. 

 

Forming organizations like the UN doesn't seemed to have helped much, hijacked by the same power players that cause most of these conflicts in the first place. 

 

Fully agree on all of that.

[aimaad22 4088]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I hear a lot about Modi because my closest friend is an Indian guy - keeps up to date with a lot of the political stuff. Hates Modi but a lot of his family really back the guy, think he's making India strong etc. He's been in power for a while though at this stage, no?

 

Yeah its his second term now, and each year has seen rising polarization and radicalization. I knew a ton of Muslim Indian guys while working in Dubai who had genuinely started planning to move their families out of India. And a lot of the Hindu ones recognize what's going on but still favor him mostly for the same reason you mentioned. Even if Modi is not directly in power in the coming years he wields significant influence over the RSS which is the real problem. And they've got successors lined up in any case. A dangerous situation in a country where the minorities number in the hundreds of millions. 

[ohhh_yeah 2930]

 

 

[Rayvin 5151]

Two Russian cruise missiles hit Kyiv while UN Sec. Gen is visiting. Being interpreted at a sign of what Russia thinks of the UN.

[ohhh_yeah 2930]

 

 

 

[trophyshy 7066]

We’re now DEFCON2 close to the headline  “PUTIN ON THE FRITZ”

[Ayatollah Hermione 13762]

Putin is fucked like. Wobbling about the gaff like he’s had a few tequila slammers too many, the mad cunt. We’re fucked once he gets the terminal diagnosis.

 

This has concluded my political overview of the situation.

[scoobos 297]

18 hours ago, aimaad22 said:

 

 

Forming organizations like the UN doesn't seemed to have helped much, hijacked by the same power players that cause most of these conflicts in the first place. 

There;s history to that. Unfortunately, it's never worked.

I'm worried about the echos of the past , it's all going eerily similar.

Sanctions on the scale we are doing are very similar to the Treaty of Versailles against Germany, they are probably the biggest cause of the rise of the Nazi party , due to hyperinflation.  (not the UK though, cos its bullshit as usual - we are STILL buying Russian oil - our "sanction" only comes into effect in December (allegedly, but this has since been changed to "at some point in the future" - no doubt because HMG thought it would be over by then - the whole sanctioned oligarch delay due to "legal process" (which no other nation had), was just to enable the movement of liquid funds offshore to UK overseas terriritories) etc etc).
UK to phase out Russian oil imports - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) - Whilst this transition takes place, the government recognises the need to continue to import Russia oil in the meantime as we work to this aim. This will help ensure continuity in our supply and protect consumers. 
Boris's bit in there -
"Working with industry, we are confident that this can be achieved over the course of the year, providing enough time for companies to adjust and ensuring consumers are protected."

 

So then, after reading that document, explain why everyone is thinking that increased energy prices or costs are anything to do with us "helping Ukraine" like the lying fuckwits are making out?

The League of Nations failed just as the UN has now - because all bets are off once war starts. (league of nations plays it safe - echos of the past? League of Nations - HISTORY )

I fear, despite some great work by the BBC (Opening Onion sites so that the dark web can be used for Russians to see other news) - that our actions only bolster public opinion in Russia.

BUT, that said - I was chatting last night on a Russian dark web forum (after a hard day on here!) and I think the perception we have that Russians support Putin , is mostly false in the educated population. It's very similar to the UK blaming foreigners for everything and wanting Brexit - in that mainly the old or less educated are supportive of it. Most people are just incredibly frightened of the repercussions of being known to be against the state. Obviously this is all just some chap on the internet , but people were discussing this new move by Russia in the past month, to encourage and reward citizens for reporting people who are "enemies of the state" - This harks back to the days of the NKVD. 

It's like History has gone full circle and no one is remembering what happened. Sanctions will not work. in so far as unseating Putin - they might if people were REALLY doing them (Both the USA and the UK will continue to purchase exactly the same amount of oil as they always have done, until December because *contractual agreements*, which is bollocks). I fear we are punishing the powerless general public - but we have to be seen to be trying to do something, I suppose.
 

Edited April 29, 2022 by scoobos

[scoobos 297]

18 hours ago, aimaad22 said:

 

Yeah its his second term now, and each year has seen rising polarization and radicalization. I knew a ton of Muslim Indian guys while working in Dubai who had genuinely started planning to move their families out of India. And a lot of the Hindu ones recognize what's going on but still favor him mostly for the same reason you mentioned. Even if Modi is not directly in power in the coming years he wields significant influence over the RSS which is the real problem. And they've got successors lined up in any case. A dangerous situation in a country where the minorities number in the hundreds of millions. 

Yup, and who's HMG striking desperate deals with now? some of his campaigners, who he distanced himself from, were giving out leaflets saying if he gets the second term he will forcefully extract Muslins, either by relocating or cleaning them!!

Sickening. 

But again, what is it with the rise of this sort of politics in the past 15 years? Is it simply "the internet" and governments having thought police departments ? (we've got one , and we are "Free" - “Nudge Unit” | The Institute for Government )

Edited April 29, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 5151]

1 hour ago, scoobos said:

Post

 

 

I think the same demographics who support Putin over there are the same ones who support him over here. He's put money into Brexit, Trump, the right in general, anti-wokeness, the discrediting of institutions both national and international, and it's the same demographics who lap it up whether here or in Russia. I don't blame them particularly because our entire discourse (and certainly their's) has been destroyed. We can't agree now on what the metric for assessing a factual statement is, instead we tell ourselves that philosophical frameworks and structures that we would have once used for this are 'elitist' and part of some conspiracy. That's Putin's doing IMO (which isn't to say that those who spun this bullshit didn't eagerly lap it up).

 

Either way though, we live in a world where established, evidence based opinions are treated as equal to poorly informed, vacuous opinions. Instead of engaging in sincere and honest debate with a view to informing yourself and growing, people instead want their biases confirmed and defend and fight for their positions without any regard at all for truth or evidence.

 

Because of how successful Russian social media manipulation has been over here, I am confident that it is also strong over there.

 

But yes, it won't be all of them. As ever, people who have developed critical thinking skills will be less susceptible to it.

[aimaad22 4088]

3 hours ago, scoobos said:

Yup, and who's HMG striking desperate deals with now? some of his campaigners, who he distanced himself from, were giving out leaflets saying if he gets the second term he will forcefully extract Muslins, either by relocating or cleaning them!!

Sickening. 

But again, what is it with the rise of this sort of politics in the past 15 years? Is it simply "the internet" and governments having thought police departments ? (we've got one , and we are "Free" - “Nudge Unit” | The Institute for Government )

 

Social media definitely had a role to play.

 

This is an interesting article on the impact of social media over the last few years. A bit long but a good read imo:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

[Isegrim 9680]

 

Horrible if really true

[ohhh_yeah 2930]

 

 

 

[Tom 14011]

 
 

[Tom 14011]

Not sure that’s how water and bombs work like 

 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 41931]

 Aye, 500m is about 1600ft. 
 

 

If a 1600ft tsunami hit Britain it wouldn’t matter tuppence if it was radioactive or not- nobody would be left to care. 
 

(No bomb in existence could make a 1600ft tsunami, btw). 

[Tom 14011]

Aye, especially one that would apparently cover an entire island  

 

It’s like something from The day today.

[RobinRobin 11094]

Best of luck chaps 

[ohhh_yeah 2930]

 

   

 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 41931]

As much as I’m on the side of Ukraine, that reads, very much, like anti-Russian propaganda. 
 

I have no doubt shit like this, and worse, is being done , but this has a strong whiff about it. 
 

Ukraine doesn’t need anti-Russian propaganda.