Vladimir Putin and Russia

[Rayvin 5151]

In the interests of absolute balance, yes, I do agree we would have to know how many are trying to enter before we can fully judge it. Would you at least agree that if we're talking tens of thousands of people are trying, then we are being deliberately obstructive?

[PaddockLad 16995]

4 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Why do you find other views so challenging?

 

“If you voted Labour in 1997 you voted for the Iraq war.”

 

it’s inane 

 

How much military support is Ireland providing?

 

I said in the very first sentence we should take more refugees and I’m sure we will.

 

1. "Why are you judging me by what I say?"

 

2. Deflection 

 

3. Insult

 

4. Irrelevant to the point under discussion 

 

5. Repetition of something unprovable but very likely bollocks given this government's immigration  policy 

 

 

0/5 mate.  You're not very good at this are you? 

[Asprilla 96]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

1. "Why are you judging me by what I say?"

 

2. Deflection 

 

3. Insult

 

4. Irrelevant to the point under discussion 

 

5. Repetition of something unprovable but very likely bollocks given this government's immigration  policy 

 

 

0/5 mate.  You're not very good at this are you? 

I just responded with the same tone as your post.

[Asprilla 96]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

In the interests of absolute balance, yes, I do agree we would have to know how many are trying to enter before we can fully judge it. Would you at least agree that if we're talking tens of thousands of people are trying, then we are being deliberately obstructive?

Immigration has become a total shit show of a topic and it’s difficult to have any opinion socially other than all immigration is good and there’s no amount that is too many.

 

I don’t know the numbers wanting to come in. I do know that personally I hope we are giving shelter to people who need it.

 

But Ukraine is not Hampstead and there will be a lot of what we would deem extreme far right sentiment in a lot of those people.

 

Do we want those people too?

 

Women and children clearly take priority but it’s not as easy as just saying any amount of unvetted people can come.

[Tom 14011]

We’ve got people with extreme right wing sentiment in government. Like the Home Secretary.

[PaddockLad 16995]

Just now, Asprilla said:

I just responded with the same tone as your post.

 

Well that's fine,  but I was pointing out that the content of the post was poor..

[Craig 6670]

27 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Apparently any British ex forces who are on their way to the Ukraine to offer support have been told not to advertise they are British in case it upsets Putin and makes us a target.

 

What a bunch of soppy cunts we've become. I'm all for not poking the bully unnecessarily, but we shouldn't be cowering in the corner hoping he doesn't look at us 

 

We're becoming a pathetic imitation of our former self and it reflects totally on the mop-haired dithering cunt in no.10. 

Forget the 'Bush/Blair - war of Terror' bollocks. It's not comparable as it wasn't an occupation. More comparable is the 1st Gulf War following the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait. Fairly certain Major, for all his greyness, was far more pro-active than that utter cockwomble Johnson is being.

[Rayvin 5151]

16 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Immigration has become a total shit show of a topic and it’s difficult to have any opinion socially other than all immigration is good and there’s no amount that is too many.

 

I don’t know the numbers wanting to come in. I do know that personally I hope we are giving shelter to people who need it.

 

But Ukraine is not Hampstead and there will be a lot of what we would deem extreme far right sentiment in a lot of those people.

 

Do we want those people too?

 

Women and children clearly take priority but it’s not as easy as just saying any amount of unvetted people can come.

 

I mean we're talking about refugees rather than immigrants of course, which I do appreciate you know - but I'm not sure where this great fear of the Ukrainian far right is on the right leaning side of politics? Wouldn't the true nazis stay and fight for their country? Also we're talking at absolute best about less than 300,000 people in the whole of Ukraine who even voted for a far right party, let alone joined one. To put that into context, we had over half a million voting for the BNP back in 2010. If we were being invaded, would you think it reasonable that 60m British people were denied refuge on the basis of 500k twats voting for a nazi party?

 

I would take men, women and children as well, frankly - although I assume since many men have been conscripted, it's not weighted in their favour anyway.

 

Those points aside, would you agree that we are behaving shamefully and failing to live up to what we are saying, if we are indeed being deliberately obstructive just because we don't really want to take these people in?

 

Irrespective of whether they're nazis, whether they're desperate or not, our policy isn't discriminating on any of those bases -it is simply difficult to complete, and therefore an active barrier. That's how it looks to me. We just don't want them because they're foreign. They're different. Surely you would agree that if this is true, it is a deplorable stance?

[Isegrim 9692]

16 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Immigration has become a total shit show of a topic and it’s difficult to have any opinion socially other than all immigration is good and there’s no amount that is too many.

 

I don’t know the numbers wanting to come in. I do know that personally I hope we are giving shelter to people who need it.

 

But Ukraine is not Hampstead and there will be a lot of what we would deem extreme far right sentiment in a lot of those people.

 

Do we want those people too?

 

Women and children clearly take priority but it’s not as easy as just saying any amount of unvetted people can come.

Yeah, it will be hard to take all those Ukrainian extremists in who are obviously targeting to destabilise the UK.

 

What are they supposed to do? Targeting Russian property in London?

 

You are getting more absurd with every day.

[ewerk 30175]

36 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

We should take as many as possible but refugees are usually people who want to return home (as opposed to economic migrants who these people clearly aren’t).

 

Being in Britain isn’t necessarily where they want to be.

Over 10,000 have applied to come. Just 50 visas have been granted. You don’t need to know much more than that to get an idea of how much our government actually wants to help.

[Craig 6670]

19 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Immigration has become a total shit show of a topic and it’s difficult to have any opinion socially other than all immigration is good and there’s no amount that is too many.

 

I don’t know the numbers wanting to come in. I do know that personally I hope we are giving shelter to people who need it.

 

But Ukraine is not Hampstead and there will be a lot of what we would deem extreme far right sentiment in a lot of those people.

 

Do we want those people too?

 

Women and children clearly take priority but it’s not as easy as just saying any amount of unvetted people can come.

Fuck me gently.... no wonder people put you on ignore.

[Isegrim 9692]

Fleeing a war has fuck all to do with immigration. But the stupid mix up of seeking asylum and immigration has been a common right wing mix up for a couple of years.

[Renton 21126]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I mean we're talking about refugees rather than immigrants of course, which I do appreciate you know - but I'm not sure where this great fear of the Ukrainian far right is on the right leaning side of politics? Wouldn't the true nazis stay and fight for their country? Also we're talking at absolute best about less than 300,000 people in the whole of Ukraine who even voted for a far right party, let alone joined one. To put that into context, we had over half a million voting for the BNP back in 2010. If we were being invaded, would you think it reasonable that 60m British people were denied refuge on the basis of 500k twats voting for a nazi party?

 

I would take men, women and children as well, frankly - although I assume since many men have been conscripted, it's not weighted in their favour anyway.

 

Those points aside, would you agree that we are behaving shamefully and failing to live up to what we are saying, if we are indeed being deliberately obstructive just because we don't really want to take these people in?

 

Irrespective of whether they're nazis, whether they're desperate or not, our policy isn't discriminating on any of those bases -it is simply difficult to complete, and therefore an active barrier. That's how it looks to me. We just don't want them because they're foreign. They're different. Surely you would agree that if this is true, it is a deplorable stance?

 

Asprilla is now backing Putin by using the good old Ukrainian neo-nazi meme (i.e. lie) I see. Honestly, up to you, but why you want to converse with this guy is beyond me.  

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I mean we're talking about refugees rather than immigrants of course, which I do appreciate you know - but I'm not sure where this great fear of the Ukrainian far right is on the right leaning side of politics? Wouldn't the true nazis stay and fight for their country? Also we're talking at absolute best about less than 300,000 people in the whole of Ukraine who even voted for a far right party, let alone joined one. To put that into context, we had over half a million voting for the BNP back in 2010. If we were being invaded, would you think it reasonable that 60m British people were denied refuge on the basis of 500k twats voting for a nazi party?

 

I would take men, women and children as well, frankly - although I assume since many men have been conscripted, it's not weighted in their favour anyway.

 

Those points aside, would you agree that we are being deliberately obstructive and failing to live up to what we are saying, if we are indeed being deliberately obstructive just because we don't really want to take these people in?

 

Irrespective of whether they're nazis, whether they're desperate or not, our policy isn't discriminating on any of those bases -it is simply difficult to complete, and therefore an active barrier. That's how it looks to me. We just don't want them because they're foreign. They're different. Surely you would agree that if this is true, it is a deplorable stance?

I honestly don’t know. We have been a fairly easy place to migrate to whether as economic migrants or refugees so it does appear odd to be making things difficult now.

 

I’m not saying it’s a big problem by the way about far right Ukrainians more that any immigration should be done carefully.

[Asprilla 96]

2 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

Fleeing a war has fuck all to do with immigration. But the stupid mix up of seeking asylum and immigration has been a common right wing mix up for a couple of years.

I know the difference perfectly well.

[Isegrim 9692]

2 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

I know the difference perfectly well.

Yet you are talking about the problem of immigration in context of people fleeing a war.

[Craig 6670]

3 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

Fleeing a war has fuck all to do with immigration. But the stupid mix up of seeking asylum and immigration has been a common right wing mix up for a couple of years.

The fucking irony that right-wing supporters accuse people genuinely seeking asylum from a war-ravaged nation of having an ulterior motive is, quite frankly, staggering.

[Rayvin 5151]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Over 10,000 have applied to come. Just 50 visas have been granted. You don’t need to know much more than that to get an idea of how much our government actually wants to help.

 

Well that's that then - If 10,000 people have applied and 50 have made it, we cannot possibly claim that we are making good on our commitments. Our government has in fact lied to the people of Ukraine, and indeed the world, in claiming to do everything in its power to help. Boris Johnson was apparently unmoved by the tears of the Ukrainian journalist who begged him for a no fly zone to save people's lives, he did not take the spirit of his condolence and assurance that he would do everything possible forward into reality.

 

Imagine if it was any of us in that position ffs - you have to tell this woman that you can't help her countrymen, that they will die because action is too risky... and not only that, you then sign off on a policy that makes their attempts to be safe as difficult as possible - turning 10,000 desperate people away. I wouldn't be able to live with myself man. I wouldn't give a fuck whose decision it was by that point, I'd be right into Priti Patel's office demanding that she let people in or I'd go public about how difficult the home office was being. On the importance of moral leadership.

 

They just do not give a shit, seriously. And that's because, ultimately, they've been elected not to give a shit.

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Asprilla is now backing Putin by using the good old Ukrainian neo-nazi meme (i.e. lie) I see. Honestly, up to you, but why you want to converse with this guy is beyond me.  

 

You’re a fantasist.

 

Are you going to try and argue that there aren’t far right factions in Ukraine?

 

 

 

 

 

[Asprilla 96]

2 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

Yet you are talking about the problem of immigration in context of people fleeing a war.

No you just need to have basic checks rather than open up your borders to everyone.

 

Or do you think you shouldn’t check?

[Alex 34739]

If you engage with him, he’ll keep going. 

[Isegrim 9692]

1 minute ago, Asprilla said:

 

You’re a fantasist.

 

Are you going to try and argue that there aren’t far right factions in Ukraine?

 

 

 

 

 

They are probably just the 800,000 invading Poland.

 

Bloody nazis at it again.

[Renton 21126]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Well that's that then - If 10,000 people have applied and 50 have made it, we cannot possibly claim that we are making good on our commitments. Our government has in fact lied to the people of Ukraine, and indeed the world, in claiming to do everything in its power to help. Boris Johnson was apparently unmoved by the tears of the Ukrainian journalist who begged him for a no fly zone to save people's lives, he did not take the spirit of his condolence and assurance that he would do everything possible forward into reality.

 

Imagine if it was any of us in that position ffs - you have to tell this woman that you can't help her countrymen, that they will die because action is too risky... and not only that, you then sign off on a policy that makes their attempts to be safe as difficult as possible - turning 10,000 desperate people away. I wouldn't be able to live with myself man. I wouldn't give a fuck whose decision it was by that point, I'd be right into Priti Patel's office demanding that she let people in or I'd go public about how difficult the home office was being. On the importance of moral leadership.

 

They just do not give a shit, seriously. And that's because, ultimately, they've been elected not to give a shit.

To put it another way, we have rejected 99.5% of applicants. Beyond shameful. 

[PaddockLad 16995]

1 minute ago, Asprilla said:

 

You’re a fantasist.

 

Are you going to try and argue that there aren’t far right factions in Ukraine?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd have thought seeing as men between 18 & 60 are barred from leaving Ukraine the neo nazi threat from the mums & toddlers and pension age old codgers to the UK uis fairly slim

[ewerk 30175]

Just now, Renton said:

To put it another way, we have rejected 99.5% of applicants. Beyond shameful. 

Well no, that’s not true. Not all the applications have been completed and processed.