PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 He doesn’t nail anything for me...the old “religion causes war” bollocks....man’s lust for land, power and money causes war. Religion is used as a way of dividing the sides, but it doesn’t cause the war. Cunts cause wars. A moral, facist cunts. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 16015 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 For all I very much agree with the "human nature" argument, the claws go a lot deeper than that. Religion may not ultimately cause war when you drill down into it, but it's definitely used to excuse it, time and time again, and that's not something that should be allowed to pass uncriticised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7420 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) On 21/11/2020 at 08:35, PaddockLad said: He doesn’t nail anything for me...the old “religion causes war” bollocks....man’s lust for land, power and money causes war. Religion is used as a way of dividing the sides, but it doesn’t cause the war. Cunts cause wars. A moral, facist cunts. Expand In the Western world, in modern times, where religion is very much diluted maybe. But thats a blinkered view of history, where fuck loads of wars have been fought over religion I mean.... Edited November 21, 2020 by Kid Dynamite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7420 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 08:27, Dr Gloom said: Religion is a load of shite. There, I nailed it. Thanks for the link. Never knew Sinatra was so thoughtful and articulate Expand I suspect it was a pre-written response by Sinatra tbf. I don't suppose all of that just rolled off his tongue. Either way, it's hard to disagree with much of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 10:50, Kid Dynamite said: In the Western world, in modern times, where religion is very much diluted maybe. But thats a blinkered view of history, where fuck loads of wars have been fought over religion I mean.... Expand What was the point of all these religious wars? The “English” Civil War was largely sectarian. What was the result of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5680 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I think it depends on how you view the people at the top. I think PL is right in his view because I don't believe, certainly throughout history and maybe even today, that there are any serious "true believers" at the top of religions. There are, however, a lot of tyrannical politicians who surround themselves with wealth and the trappings of power. These people will not have taken anyone to war for the sake of anything other than consolidation of their own power and importance. I'm not sure any other argument makes sense really, I mean there is no justification in the Bible at least for some of the atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity. So why would the supposed leaders of said religion depart from the heart and spirit of what they believe if not for their own human weaknesses and greed. In the end though, we've continued with the same power grabbing, resource hording and general fucking on even now, in a post religious age (in the West). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4479 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I don't accept the West is post religious. The US certainly isn't and many countries are still intrinsically bound to religion and their evil twin monarchies all over Europe. There may be a reduced Sunday congregations in the UK but the link with religion through weddings, funerals and of course education is still central to the British way of life. And thats before you consider the adherence to non-Christian religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5680 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 21:23, NJS said: I don't accept the West is post religious. The US certainly isn't and many countries are still intrinsically bound to religion and their evil twin monarchies all over Europe. There may be a reduced Sunday congregations in the UK but the link with religion through weddings, funerals and of course education is still central to the British way of life. And thats before you consider the adherence to non-Christian religions. Expand Politically non religious then. The West doesn't fight religious wars anymore is all I meant. Nowadays we just need to brand people terrorists and we can apparently blow up civilians with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 44169 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 00:07, Rayvin said: …The West doesn't fight religious wars anymore is all I meant.… Expand Al Quaeda would like a quick word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5680 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Hmm, I didn't view that as religious on our side in any sense. Revenge, war economy, domestic political factors but not defending the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 02:38, Monkeys Fist said: Al Quaeda would like a quick word. Expand Agreed. A tiny minority of literal terrorists. Their brothers in Islamic State were more typical though. The first thing they did once they got properly organised was to declare that large parts of Iraq & Syria were part of their own personal Caliphate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 44169 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 07:38, Rayvin said: Hmm, I didn't view that as religious on our side in any sense. Revenge, war economy, domestic political factors but not defending the faith. Expand Doesn’t matter if you’re atheist, Christian, Jewish, whatever- if the “opponent” shouts “God is Great! “ before, during and after their acts, then you are fighting a religious war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23029 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 07:38, Rayvin said: Hmm, I didn't view that as religious on our side in any sense. Revenge, war economy, domestic political factors but not defending the faith. Expand George Bush junior literally called it a crusade. Anyone who thinks religion is dead in the west is bonkers. You would have a better chance of being elected in a position of political power as a convicted paedophole than as a declared atheist in the USA. Religion is toxic and pretending it isn't is part of the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4479 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Regarding the middle East, it's worth pointing out there is a large and powerful Christian lobby who see conflict there as a fundamental part of their end times fantasy and are willing to do anything to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7420 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Ok, so the argument is the people that go to war, the ruling class, tend to do it for power/money? What about the boots on the ground? The millions of soldiers and civilians? Do you think religion doesn't play a part in that? There aren't millions of people on this planet who literally hate vast swathes of the population because of the religion they follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 36146 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 They don’t usually start the wars 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7420 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 14:11, Alex said: They don’t usually start the wars Expand The original quote was... "Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace, but more blood has been shed in his name than any other figure in history" People can play semantics all they want but the assertion that "religion doesn't cause wars" is demonstrably false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 So if everyone was an atheist there’d be no wars? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23029 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 22:39, PaddockLad said: So if everyone was an atheist there’d be no wars? Expand No. War is caused by thr concept of difference or otherness. There will always be differences between nation states other than religion. Religion is a pretty strong source of difference though and furthermore religious texts can incite hatred and justification for war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 12042 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 08:27, Dr Gloom said: Religion is a load of shite. There, I nailed it. Thanks for the link. Never knew Sinatra was so thoughtful and articulate Expand He did it his way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 23:37, Renton said: No. War is caused by thr concept of difference or otherness. There will always be differences between nation states other than religion. Religion is a pretty strong source of difference though and furthermore religious texts can incite hatred and justification for war. Expand Which is what I said originally... KD is tight, it is semantics. But the point remains, people are cunts without religion. Blaming the majority of warfare on religion is a sweeping generalisation I just can’t get on with. The central tenets of all major religions on the planet are peace, love and understanding. Most of us know that’s fuckin bollocks. If you covet thy neighbour’s Ox you’ll take thy neighbour’s ox, murder him then move into his house and take all his land. Fuck all in the scriptures will stop that. There’s also tiny bits in the scriptures that are exploited by the aforementioned cunts to manipulate the easily lead, to take an entire herd, then the farm, murdering all the farm workers in the process. But you’ve still got to covet thy neighbours ox in the first place... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4479 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I think the war/conflict blame game is the "minor" downside of religion for me as I accept the human nature angle - it's the insidious anti-reason and nonsensical bollocks that pollutes people's brains that bothers me. And thats before the fuckers pass laws to enshrine said bollocks and affect rational people with their nonsense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7420 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 23/11/2020 at 08:03, PaddockLad said: Which is what I said originally... KD is tight... Expand Who told you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18253 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 23/11/2020 at 11:18, Kid Dynamite said: Who told you? Expand Hi Tommy...its widely rumoured you spend all the housekeeping on pinball mate.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14026 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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