Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, adios said: Pretty feckin' important metric though. I do think the money's there, it just turns out it's fuck all in the current market. It is, but how is the situation with respect of time any different now than it was prior to Rafa's interview, with the exception of the fact that now a couple of hours have past, and that Rafa has acknowledged we're having a hard time signing people - something we're all aware of. I genuinely think that interview has revealed nothing we didn't already know, and shouldn't cause any more panic than any of us had at 9am this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 It's not like it's the first comment though. He's leaked stuff to the press about being unhappy with the situation (the Hardy article for example). At this point, it sounds more like a scream and nothing's changing. This is more a case of the penultimate straw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, ewerk said: How much of it is lack of funds and how much is it down to having an incompetent lickspittle doing the negotiating? I think Rafa was careful to say he was told that funds were available. Charnley's signed dozens of costly players over the last 2 summers, upping the offer on Ritchie bt £2m at Rafa's insistence. He's proved perfectly competent at signing players. It's pointedly a dig at Ashley so the fans know it's Ashley, like it was when Keegan said roughly the same and Wise was Ashley's fall guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Genuinely think Charnley is a bigger problem for the club than Ashley in the short term. Complete nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 The buck stops at Ashley's door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22187 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 40 minutes ago, trooper said: might be time for the Ashleyout.com gang to start making preparations just in case yeah, it worked so well last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I think both parties have spent the summer mindful of what can be brought to evidence when it gets down to the court case. Privately I think Ashley promised funds for transfers and an increased wage bill to keep Rafa happy. Keegan says he always got told what he wanted to hear by Ashley, and then he wouldn't hear from him again. Rafa, learned from Keegan though, he wanted a public assurance that he would get funds before he would commit longer term. Ashley had season tickets and kit to sell, so he was careful to say that Rafa can spend every penny that the club generates. With nowt in the bank and payments coming monthly rather than in bulk before the window closed that was about as worthwhile as the promise of "no capital outlay" but many took it as a positive promise of £150m revenues being spent in the summer. Ashley covered his arse for any court case when he could say the cupboard was bare. Rafa's gone further than Ashley, he's saying publicly that Ashley personally promised there was money for transfers AND WAGES (which is important when it comes to free transfers and loans). If Ashley doesn't refute that, either publicly or in writing then his position is weakened when he gets to court. If Rafa walks before the window closes then the club can always say "we still had business to do" and rafa has no case, so I don't think he'll go until early September. I'm not confident he's going to get anything near what he wanted though. Question will be whether he's satisfied enough to plough on with what he gets or thinks he's been set up for a fall, can't achieve mid-table comfortably and jumps ship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: yeah, it worked so well last time. Agreed but it would be criminal if he went i'm fairly certain a lot more would support it. What would be the point of going to games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Happy Face said: Complete nonsense We'll have to agree to disagree. I remain unconvinced that Ashley gives a fuck about the day to day running of the club, and as long as it 'wipes it's own nose' he'll be happy. Charnley is the one who got us relegated, will be responsible for replacing Rafa if he goes, and actually, is responsible for keeping everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. He is woefully out of his depth running this club, and has proven it repeatedly. Charnley is paid far less than any other CEO in the Prem. Largely because he's a compliant, incompetent fucknut. But he'll be topping up what he earns through profit related bonuses. He's probably more interested in those than in building something for the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 41 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Genuinely think Charnley is a bigger problem for the club than Ashley in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Park Life said: 'Optics'. Edited July 17, 2017 by Rayvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Happy Face said: I think both parties have spent the summer mindful of what can be brought to evidence when it gets down to the court case. Privately I think Ashley promised funds for transfers and an increased wage bill to keep Rafa happy. Keegan says he always got told what he wanted to hear by Ashley, and then he wouldn't hear from him again. Rafa, learned from Keegan though, he wanted a public assurance that he would get funds before he would commit longer term. Ashley had season tickets and kit to sell, so he was careful to say that Rafa can spend every penny that the club generates. With nowt in the bank and payments coming monthly rather than in bulk before the window closed that was about as worthwhile as the promise of "no capital outlay" but many took it as a positive promise of £150m revenues being spent in the summer. Ashley covered his arse for any court case when he could say the cupboard was bare. Rafa's gone further than Ashley, he's saying publicly that Ashley personally promised there was money for transfers AND WAGES (which is important when it comes to free transfers and loans). If Ashley doesn't refute that, either publicly or in writing then his position is weakened when he gets to court. If Rafa walks before the window closes then the club can always say "we still had business to do" and rafa has no case, so I don't think he'll go until early September. I'm not confident he's going to get anything near what he wanted though. Question will be whether he's satisfied enough to plough on with what he gets or thinks he's been set up for a fall, can't achieve mid-table comfortably and jumps ship. So why is Ashley not going to provide the funds? What's his endgame? ETA: Ashley's repeatedly shown he won't put a penny into the club (except where it helps like paying for players in one lump sum), but also that he's not taking money out. I don't see the pattern that you're making the argument for. Keegan was promised money that wasn't there; Rafa's been promised money that is there (guaranteed). Edited July 17, 2017 by adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, adios said: So why is Ashley not going to provide the funds? What's his endgame? Ashley's been very consistent that NUFVC has to wipe it's own nose. The club hasn't got much money. He put £15m in last year, so the bank balance is zero if he had to make up the losses. Income this year is spread over the whole season. He told rafa that money would be available though. He had to in his mind. If Rafa had walked in the summer then Season Ticket saless would have bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, adios said: So why is Ashley not going to provide the funds? What's his endgame? run the club on a shoestring, try stay out the bottom 3, free worldwide advertising for SD every fortnight, full ground every fortnight, everythings pure profit for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Happy Face said: Ashley's been very consistent that NUFVC has to wipe it's own nose. The club hasn't got much money. He put £15m in last year, so the bank balance is zero if he had to make up the losses. Income this year is spread over the whole season. He told rafa that money would be available though. He had to in his mind. If Rafa had walked in the summer then Season Ticket saless would have bombed. Do we not get some manner of instalment of the season's windfall in a week or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, adios said: Rafa's been promised money that is there (guaranteed). Who puts up that guaranteed income up before it arrives? Whole ethos is we'll only spend what we have, not what we're due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Happy Face said: I think both parties have spent the summer mindful of what can be brought to evidence when it gets down to the court case. Privately I think Ashley promised funds for transfers and an increased wage bill to keep Rafa happy. Keegan says he always got told what he wanted to hear by Ashley, and then he wouldn't hear from him again. Rafa, learned from Keegan though, he wanted a public assurance that he would get funds before he would commit longer term. Ashley had season tickets and kit to sell, so he was careful to say that Rafa can spend every penny that the club generates. With nowt in the bank and payments coming monthly rather than in bulk before the window closed that was about as worthwhile as the promise of "no capital outlay" but many took it as a positive promise of £150m revenues being spent in the summer. Ashley covered his arse for any court case when he could say the cupboard was bare. Rafa's gone further than Ashley, he's saying publicly that Ashley personally promised there was money for transfers AND WAGES (which is important when it comes to free transfers and loans). If Ashley doesn't refute that, either publicly or in writing then his position is weakened when he gets to court. If Rafa walks before the window closes then the club can always say "we still had business to do" and rafa has no case, so I don't think he'll go until early September. I'm not confident he's going to get anything near what he wanted though. Question will be whether he's satisfied enough to plough on with what he gets or thinks he's been set up for a fall, can't achieve mid-table comfortably and jumps ship. Spot on. All of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Happy Face said: He told rafa that money would be available though. He had to in his mind. If Rafa had walked in the summer then Season Ticket saless would have bombed. Like I said yesterday, this is how it felt at the time. A real empty promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Happy Face said: Who puts up that guaranteed income up before it arrives? Whole ethos is we'll only spend what we have, not what we're due. Also, your theory suggests that Rafa went into a meeting with Ashley, was told 'we can spend what we earn' and never questioned what that figure was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31229 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Happy Face said: Who puts up that guaranteed income up before it arrives? Whole ethos is we'll only spend what we have, not what we're due. It would be very cheap to borrow against guaranteed PL money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Do we not get some manner of instalment of the season's windfall in a week or two? £79m equal share is spread over 10 month, so would be £8m a month, but we get a bit more in the summer and winter windows. Don't know what it is. Maybe enough to buy Murphy with a higher offer? Not going to be a kitty to get much more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Happy Face said: Ashley's been very consistent that NUFVC has to wipe it's own nose. The club hasn't got much money. He put £15m in last year, so the bank balance is zero if he had to make up the losses. Income this year is spread over the whole season. He told rafa that money would be available though. He had to in his mind. If Rafa had walked in the summer then Season Ticket saless would have bombed. Perhaps even my 30m prediction was optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: It would be very cheap to borrow against guaranteed PL money. Even cheaper for Ashley to lend the club it. he won't though, because you then have nowt to spend next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5319 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Happy Face said: Even cheaper for Ashley to lend the club it. he won't though, because you then have nowt to spend next summer. Why would Rafa have left a meeting with Ashley, without an actual figure concerning what the budget would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Also, your theory suggests that Rafa went into a meeting with Ashley, was told 'we can spend what we earn' and never questioned what that figure was... He's already said himself he's never been given an amount that the club can spend (according to press). His concern isn't the transfer kitty. Loan signings and free transfers have gone begging when we have one of the lowest wage bills in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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