TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, Andrew said: If you don't hope that a new owner could be a super-rich nut who will turn us into title challengers in a few years then whats the point in hoping for anything? Dreaming of those top half finishes isn't exactly setting the pulse racing He will be it's just his bit that he does for the mackems because he's fearful of being called deleewded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 23 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Why not? Who do you suppose is buying us? So you think they've gone from wanting Liverpool and wanting to mount title challenges to wanting to take us top half instead? I think a better suggestion would be that the saving on purchase price can be invested in players. And we are probably a billion cheaper than Liverpool to buy. It's "feasible" to turn anybody into a title challenging side. Whoever is behind this clearly wants a top club not an also-ran. I'm supposing that whoever buys us will have to rapidly catch up, then compete with the spending powers of Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd, they'll have to build a squad of top class players (who'll need to be convinced to join a newly promoted side) all the while they'll need to obey FFP which will mean they can't simply throw £500m at the problem in each of the next 3 windows. Do you honestly think that Daddy Warbucks is going to buy the club for £300m, then pump £1bn into playing staff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, Andrew said: If you don't hope that a new owner could be a super-rich nut who will turn us into title challengers in a few years then whats the point in hoping for anything? Dreaming of those top half finishes isn't exactly setting the pulse racing I'm hoping for us to separate from the rest of the league and join the big boys table. I'm hoping that we compete for CL spots when Chelsea and the Manchester clubs have a bad season. I'm hoping that we see some great football again. I'm hoping we win so many cups we stop caring about them. If you want to dream about become Man City, you crack on, but I don't think mine are risible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 They'll definitely be aiming for top four - that's where the big bucks is. I definitely wouldn't expect it immediately, but there's no reason why it can't be achieved within, say, three to five years with shrewd investment. Hell, we nearly did it under Pardew thanks to a few good signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, rogerbarton said: They'll definitely be aiming for top four - that's where the big bucks is. I definitely wouldn't expect it immediately, but there's no reason why it can't be achieved within, say, three to five years with shrewd investment. Hell, we nearly did it under Pardew thanks to a few good signings. It's harder now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4748 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Fish said: If you want to dream about become Man City Fish man, that's what hopes and dreams are supposed to be, they aren't expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, rogerbarton said: They'll definitely be aiming for top four - that's where the big bucks is. I definitely wouldn't expect it immediately, but there's no reason why it can't be achieved within, say, three to five years with shrewd investment. Hell, we nearly did it under Pardew thanks to a few good signings. Pardew's season was a one off. Sneaking a top four finish is possible, but not consistently. If Chelsea drop out of the top 4, what will they do? They'll spend £200m on the best players around, appoint a top class coach and yada yada. Best bet is to swell the group competing for the CL spot, but that's not top 4, that's 4-8, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, Andrew said: Fish man, that's what dreams are supposed to be, they aren't expectations. Then Ginger Biff is comparing his hopes and dreams, to my expectations. For the interweb lols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Fish said: I'm supposing that whoever buys us will have to rapidly catch up, then compete with the spending powers of Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd, they'll have to build a squad of top class players (who'll need to be convinced to join a newly promoted side) all the while they'll need to obey FFP which will mean they can't simply throw £500m at the problem in each of the next 3 windows. Do you honestly think that Daddy Warbucks is going to buy the club for £300m, then pump £1bn into playing staff? Do you honestly think Chelsea and Man City fans thought that pre-takeover? The evidence is there for you, they wanted Liverpool so have a LOT of money to put into buying a football club. I suspect you've already realised your error but are continuing to argue for the sake of it as per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4748 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, The Fish said: Then Ginger Biff is comparing his hopes and dreams, to my expectations. For the interweb lols. Cool, you'd not actually said that anywhere and at no point disputed that they were your hopes rather than expectations until just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Fish said: Pardew's season was a one off. Sneaking a top four finish is possible, but not consistently. If Chelsea drop out of the top 4, what will they do? They'll spend £200m on the best players around, appoint a top class coach and yada yada. Best bet is to swell the group competing for the CL spot, but that's not top 4, that's 4-8, isn't it? All other points aside do you think Abramovic has the interest any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Do you honestly think Chelsea and Man City fans thought that pre-takeover? The evidence is there for you, they wanted Liverpool so have a LOT of money to put into buying a football club. I suspect you've already realised your error but are continuing to argue for the sake of it as per Yeah, I reckon when Man City fans heard they were being bought out by an Oil state they thought they could muscle in on the title challenge, I mean it was only Man Utd and Chelsea operating with that amount of money at the time. Plus Arsenal's grip on 4th. Now there's Chelsea, Man city and Man Utd who have unlimited funds, Spurs are up there in terms of quality and aren't short a bob or two. Then there's Liverpool and Arsenal I stand by what I said. Whoever buys us out will likely pump cash into the club and the squad. But how much will it cost to challenge for the title? Genuinely, how much? 1 hour ago, Andrew said: Cool, you'd not actually said that anywhere and at no point disputed that they were your hopes rather than expectations until just now. To be fair, Quiff lifted a conversation I was having on RTG about expectations. Not Hopes and Dreams. That's on him, not me. 1 hour ago, Howay said: All other points aside do you think Abramovic has the interest any more? I'm not sure if he's as excited, but I don't know if he's bothered enough to pull back his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) You want me to pull a number out of my arse? It won't be cheap, but the new owners probably won't be cheapskates. You'd think Ashley's Arab cousins were PCP the way you're going on Edited December 13, 2017 by TheGingerQuiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: You want me to pull a number out of my arse? It won't be cheap, but the new owners probably won't be cheapskates. You'd think Ashley's Arab cousins were PCP the way you're going on You wouldn't like, if you read what I said and refrained from acting the quim, you'd think that it's unlikely that the new owners will be able to finance an assault on the title given how competitive it is already, how well heeled the competitors are and how far behind them we are. Trouble is you can't refrain from acting the quim long enough to see that. Edited December 13, 2017 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, The Fish said: You wouldn't like, if you read what I said and refrained from acting the quim you'd think that it's unlikely that the new owners will be able to finance an assault on the title given how competitive it is already, how well heeled the competitors are and how far behind them we are. Trouble is you can't refrain from acting the quim long enough to see that. It's not that competitive. Liverpool and Spurs are both being carried by a small handful of top players that will ultimately leave for more money - if we're suddenly being bankrolled to pay that top money we can surpass them. Arsenal are in decline too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: It's not that competitive. Liverpool and Spurs are both being carried by a small handful of top players that will ultimately leave for more money - if we're suddenly being bankrolled to pay that top money we can surpass them. Arsenal are in decline too. We maybe can surpass them, but if they sell their top players, they'll get a shit load of money on top of the impressive budgets they normally have. That shitload of money will be reinvested into playing staff. Eriksen, Alli, Dier, cost Spurs comparative buttons. # Club(s) Seasons Expenditures Income Balance Gross Spend per Season Balance per season 1 Chelsea 14 £1,480,000,000 £785,670,000 -£776,200,000 £105,714,286 -£55,442,857 2 Man City 14 £1,470,000,000 £427,260,000 -£1,156,850,000 £105,000,000 -£82,632,143 3 Man Utd 14 £1,170,000,000 £456,710,000 -£791,410,000 £83,571,429 -£56,529,286 4 Liverpool 14 £997,410,000 £624,520,000 -£414,320,000 £71,243,571 -£29,594,286 5 Tottenham 14 £880,760,000 £676,230,000 -£227,260,000 £62,911,429 -£16,232,857 6 Arsenal 14 £615,490,000 £403,930,000 -£235,070,000 £43,963,571 -£16,790,714 7 Everton 14 £498,670,000 £353,380,000 -£161,440,000 £35,619,286 -£11,531,429 8 Newcastle Utd 12 £483,290,000 £374,310,000 -£121,090,000 £40,274,167 -£10,090,833 9 West Ham 12 £425,590,000 £288,650,000 -£152,160,000 £35,465,833 -£12,680,000 10 Aston Villa 12 £412,970,000 £245,390,000 -£186,210,000 £34,414,167 -£15,517,500 11 Sunderland 11 £385,680,000 £224,290,000 -£179,320,000 £35,061,818 -£16,301,818 12 Southampton 7 £354,950,000 £350,990,000 -£4,400,000 £50,707,143 -£628,571 13 Leicester 6 £267,100,000 £132,140,000 -£149,960,000 £44,516,667 -£24,993,333 14 WBA 11 £258,510,000 £122,220,000 -£151,440,000 £23,500,909 -£13,767,273 15 Stoke City 10 £249,870,000 £86,670,000 -£181,330,000 £24,987,000 -£18,133,000 16 Middlesbrough 7 £246,320,000 £163,050,000 -£92,520,000 £35,188,571 -£13,217,143 17 Fulham 11 £238,620,000 £192,240,000 -£51,530,000 £21,692,727 -£4,684,545 18 Crystal Palace 5 £235,460,000 £104,730,000 -£145,250,000 £47,092,000 -£29,050,000 19 Watford 3 £226,310,000 £126,980,000 -£110,370,000 £75,436,667 -£36,790,000 20 Swansea 7 £216,970,000 £222,670,000 £6,340,000 £30,995,714 £905,714 Look at the gap between the spend of the title challengers (and Liverpool) and the rest! And Liverpool aren't realistically anywhere near challenging for the title. Even if they do have great forwards, Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd are much better. And should Liverpool fix their defence, those three will just spend another couple hundred million to keep the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 But all of that is irrelevant until you know who's buying us, what their intentions are and what they're going to invest. And how long is that table even over? It certainly isn't the cost of going out and buying a title. All of those top spending clubs will have rebuilt a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, TheGingerQuiff said: But all of that is irrelevant until you know who's buying us, what their intentions are and what they're going to invest. And how long is that table even over? It certainly isn't the cost of going out and buying a title. All of those top spending clubs will have rebuilt a few times. Since 2003 when Abramovic bought chelsea and the landscape changed. They will have rebuilt a few times, but the new owners would have to buy a team that could compete with Man City's. How much would that cost us, given it's cost them millions upon millions for years? they had to go through a phase of signing "star names" to announce themselves on the big stage. They had to change the perception of Man City. We'd have to do similar. We'd have to convince the football world we're a serious consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, The Fish said: Since 2003 when Abramovic bought chelsea and the landscape changed. They will have rebuilt a few times, but the new owners would have to buy a team that could compete with Man City's. How much would that cost us, given it's cost them millions upon millions for years? they had to go through a phase of signing "star names" to announce themselves on the big stage. They had to change the perception of Man City. We'd have to do similar. We'd have to convince the football world we're a serious consideration. Doubt we've got as much ground as City to make up to be considered "serious". Man City have spent millions upon millions for years to win multiple trophies, most of the players those millions were spent on have moved on - so what they've spent since the early 2000s isn't representative of the cost of competing with them. Man City's team looks untouchable this season but the reality is that teams rarely retain the title anymore so as long as we're bankrolled sufficiently we can challenge. Edited December 13, 2017 by TheGingerQuiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Doubt we've got as much ground as City to make up to be considered "serious". Man City have spent millions upon millions for years to win multiple trophies, most of the players those millions were spent on have moved on - so what they've spent since the early 2000s isn't representative of the cost of competing with them. Man City's team looks untouchable this season but the reality is that teams rarely retain the title anymore so as long as we're bankrolled sufficiently we can challenge. Aye it's fair to say that theoretically we could build a side of stars to compete with Man City next season. But realistically it's would take time and a shit ton of money, because players the standard of Cavani, Bonucci, Dybala, Mertens, Malcolm are going to need some convincing to join a fairly newly promoted Premier League side that isn't in London and isn't one of the massive clubs from the North West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Aye it's fair to say that theoretically we could build a side of stars to compete with Man City next season. But realistically it's would take time and a shit ton of money, because players the standard of Cavani, Bonucci, Dybala, Mertens, Malcolm are going to need some convincing to join a fairly newly promoted Premier League side that isn't in London and isn't one of the massive clubs from the North West. WE'RE. GOING. TO. WIN. THE. LEAGUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10856 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Can't help but think that if we lose to Everton and any more subsequent games in December there might well be 'Mutual Agreement' writing on the wall. Can only hope Rafa is around in January and gets a substantial amount of spending money either from Ashley or potential new owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 the takeover won'y have gone through by jan, but it will go through. ashley will release funds, underwritten by stavely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Louise Taylor reckons Stavely wants to compete with Man City. In your face The Fidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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