Tom 14011 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He's the only manager in history to win the club World Cup, the super cup, the champions league and the Europa league. That's pretty much a definition of world class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5219 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I dunno why he bothers. RTG has about 3 sentient beings on the whole message board, and the others are complete morons with overt envy concerning the relative stature of Newcastle to Sunderland in almost every sense. The level of inadequacy amongst the poster base there is repellant. I checked the thread Fish is posting in and its like the Wolfy thread if you had 50 Wolfys and...well, the Fish. They're like this because Sunderland is a city with the mentality of a small town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 50 wolfy's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGingerQuiff said: The Fish over on rtg playing to his crowd, says Benitez isn't world class For me there's enough managers ahead of him in the list of top managers, currently. But if I say currently, it would take the conversation off on a tangent that's irrelevant. Trouble is, it's hard to say with managers, you have to take into account the context of the club they're managing. Is Wenger currently a top manager? Well his team consistently plies their trade at the top of a difficult league, they play great football at times, but all too often fall short of their remit. Mourinho delivers all over the shop, Guardiola does too, what about Simeone, Emery, Zidane, Conte, Klopp, Pochettino, and so on. I think he's been dealt a rough hand at Newcastle at was already a big task and if he succeeds here (whatever success looks like) he'd have to, once again, be spoken of as World Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 26 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I dunno why he bothers. RTG has about 3 sentient beings on the whole message board, and the others are complete morons with overt envy concerning the relative stature of Newcastle to Sunderland in almost every sense. The level of inadequacy amongst the poster base there is repellant. I checked the thread Fish is posting in and its like the Wolfy thread if you had 50 Wolfys and...well, the Fish. They're like this because Sunderland is a city with the mentality of a small town. Busier than here and it's an exercise in getting better at putting my point across. I lack brevity and clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Fish said: For me there's enough managers ahead of him in the list of top managers, currently. But if I say currently, it would take the conversation off on a tangent that's irrelevant. Trouble is, it's hard to say with managers, you have to take into account the context of the club they're managing. Is Wenger currently a top manager? Well his team consistently plies their trade at the top of a difficult league, they play great football at times, but all too often fall short of their remit. Mourinho delivers all over the shop, Guardiola does too, what about Simeone, Emery, Zidane, Conte, Klopp, Pochettino, and so on. I think he's been dealt a rough hand at Newcastle at was already a big task and if he succeeds here (whatever success looks like) he'd have to, once again, be spoken of as World Class. He's got a better career win % than Klopp and Pochettino and more trophies than all of those barring Jose and Pep, and his biggest achievements were arguably more of an accomplishment than Pep's because of the clubs he did it with. Klopp/Conte/Poch/Zidane are fucking no marks next to Benitez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: He's got a better career win % than Klopp and Pochettino and more trophies than all of those barring Jose and Pep, and his biggest achievements were arguably more of an accomplishment than Pep's because of the clubs he did it with. Klopp/Conte/Poch/Zidane are fucking no marks next to Benitez. He's had an amazing career and that's not up for discussion. I'm just saying, right now, there are better managers out there. I don't think that's controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Fish said: He's had an amazing career and that's not up for discussion. I'm just saying, right now, there are better managers out there. I don't think that's controversial. In what way? He's here because it's convenient for his personal life. Not because his stock is so low that he can't get a better job. He's in the elite group and the number of better current managers can be counted on one hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 48 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: In what way? He's here because it's convenient for his personal life. Not because his stock is so low that he can't get a better job. He's in the elite group and the number of better current managers can be counted on one hand Which of the top jobs could Rafa Benitez actually get though? Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, PSG, Real Madrid, Tottenham? Which of those top clubs would go for Benitez? What makes a manager "world Class" if it isn't being on the shortlist for World Class clubs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 His last job was Real Madrid. They don't get much bigger than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30602 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He's also won plenty at two of the other clubs on that list. What more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Fish said: Which of the top jobs could Rafa Benitez actually get though? Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, PSG, Real Madrid, Tottenham? Which of those top clubs would go for Benitez? What makes a manager "world Class" if it isn't being on the shortlist for World Class clubs? He's already put trophies in 2 of the clubs you've listed, and his last job was another you listed. I'm pretty sure he'd be in consideration for most top jobs if he was available barring those that he has a past with. E.g he wouldn't go back to Chelsea because of the way it went down, or he wouldn't go to Man Utd because of the Liverpool link. Liverpool fans would have him back in a flash. When Wenger was on the brink he was being linked with Arsenal. That's a bigger job than Spurs btw. Considering Pep's response to last seasons relative failure was to spend £50m on Kyle Walker I reckon he could sort them out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Rafa's football credentianls are second to none, his commitment is superb. He's shown he's not afraid to take on clubs owners. But this job is something else not only has he got the challenge of preparing & getting what amounts to a championship side to play well in the premiership. But also he is up against Ashley & his croanies Barnes & Charnley denying his chances to strengthen his team. He has already earned his legendary status with the fans for his achievements with what he inherited (promotion) But something tells me that this challenge might be the one that defeats Rafa he's here to sort the football side out. They should be falling over themselves to help him move the club on instead of going out of their way to make things difficult for him. We're on the eve of a new season newly promoted & we should ready to hit the ground running. Instead we have an unhappy manager who is at least 3/4 players short of what he wanted, with no premiership quality in the team & our main striker unlikely to start against Spurs. I'm sure Rafa will give it a good go i just hope Ashley & co don't sicken him off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 9 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said: He's already put trophies in 2 of the clubs you've listed, and his last job was another you listed. I'm pretty sure he'd be in consideration for most top jobs if he was available barring those that he has a past with. E.g he wouldn't go back to Chelsea because of the way it went down, or he wouldn't go to Man Utd because of the Liverpool link. Liverpool fans would have him back in a flash. When Wenger was on the brink he was being linked with Arsenal. That's a bigger job than Spurs btw. Considering Pep's response to last seasons relative failure was to spend £50m on Kyle Walker I reckon he could sort them out as well. I just don't think he's world class at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7295 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Fish said: I just don't think he's world class at the minute. Is that because by your reckoning you can't be world class unless you're at a world class club with world class players at your disposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 minute ago, OTF said: Is that because by your reckoning you can't be world class unless you're at a world class club with world class players at your disposal? It's based on the fact I don't think the very top clubs would have Benitez high on their shortlist. It's a fucking pointless conversation anyway, everyone's definition of "World Class" will be slightly or entirely different, and as a label it is entirely arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 He's obviously a world class coach. All you need to do is look at what he's won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5219 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 45 minutes ago, The Fish said: It's based on the fact I don't think the very top clubs would have Benitez high on their shortlist. It's a fucking pointless conversation anyway, everyone's definition of "World Class" will be slightly or entirely different, and as a label it is entirely arbitrary. I think the point is more why you're watering down his abilities just to advance a conversation with people whose grasp of reality disintegrates as soon as our club is mentioned, if it ever existed at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I think the point is more why you're watering down his abilities just to advance a conversation with people whose grasp of reality disintegrates as soon as our club is mentioned, if it ever existed at all I don't think I am, he's mint, the best manager we've had since Robson, way above the standard of manager I could have hoped for under Ashley and is solely responsible for a nascent awakening of a sleeping giant despite obstacles dropped by an inept owner. It's just that he isn't one the few managers that I would call World Class. Guarantee there'll be a hayuuge disagreement about which players are World Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Fish you've undone months of careful football posting in two days. Benny is one of the best managers in the world easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5219 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Fish said: I don't think I am, he's mint, the best manager we've had since Robson, way above the standard of manager I could have hoped for under Ashley and is solely responsible for a nascent awakening of a sleeping giant despite obstacles dropped by an inept owner. It's just that he isn't one the few managers that I would call World Class. Guarantee there'll be a hayuuge disagreement about which players are World Class. Until Guardiola manages a club of our level and wins something with them, I'm not prepared to call him world class Is any manager world class? There's an elite group at the top who are, in effect, born into management with a silver spoon in their mouths. Zidane is another. Mourinho you could make a good case for, I suppose. Edited August 10, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The very top clubs have a tendancy to look for the next up and coming thing a lot of the time rather than someone who has proved that they are top class. For that reason I don't think they would be looking at Rafa anymore. There's certainly a lower level of champions league teams that would be interested in him should he be available though. I actually think he's being pretty smart in what he's saying now. He's obviously trying to push everything he can out of Ashley but I think he realises the conditions in the market just make it almost impossible to provide the funds he would really like without Ashley dipping into his own pocket (something he won't do). So he's giving himself a fallback if things do go wrong he can say well I said from the beginning we weren't strong enough. What he wanted was a team that would keep us comfortably away from the threat of relegation. We haven't manged to get that but there's at least five or six other teams who are in the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13863 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Park Life said: Fish you've undone months of careful football posting in two days. Benny is one of the best managers in the world easily. I know, what the fuck are you on about, Fish? There isn't even a synonym for "lucky" strong enough to describe how we are to have him. Handling the upheaval of last summer and getting us up first time of asking was a pretty massive task when you look back on it, even if he did rustle up money to spend on Gayle and Ritchie. You'd have to be pretty spot on to pull that off and that's just for starters Edited August 10, 2017 by Ayatollah Hermione Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 4248 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Roll on Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13863 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Also, Zidane doesn't count since he's basically playing with the cheats on at Real Madrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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