Andros Townsend

[ewerk 30221]

@tfweeklypod has the best insight on this so far. They spoke to Rafa in December and even then Benitez emphasised how difficult the window is, and that he'd only be buying the right players. 

 

Have to say, the reaction hasn't been surprising in the least. Townsend would have been a good addition, and I believe we were working to that end. However, I don't think him staying at Palace signifies a return to the bad old days, I don't think it signifies broken promises, I don't think it spells the end for Rafa or anything else.

 

I think it means that we tried to sign Townsend but either the deal wasn't right for us, wasn't right for Palace or wasn't right for Townsend. I think we looked at players like Barrow and McCarthy and at least one of those three things meant those transfers didn't happen.

 

Rafa apparently wanted to buy for the Premier League, is Mo Barrow going to be Premier League ready, can't we do better than James McCarthy in the summer?

 

I agree with most of that. I still don't understand why we had to go right to the final day of the window with Townsend though. It's the sort of thing that should have been sorted early on in the month.

[Andrew 4713]

Don't know how we managed to get to 58pts in 27 games, especially when we didn't even have Ameobi and Sterry.

 

Think you're confusing "want to" with "need to" to be honest. We remain presumptive champions, we remain odds-on to go up automatically. Would Townsend have kicked us on a gear, sure. But I don't think our promotion push is scuppered without him, and it's certainly not under threat because we didn't sign Mo fucking Barrow.

 

Indeed.

 

Complaining about El-Mhanni and Barlaser playing as if we absolutely had to play them as we'd no one else when in reality we put the kids out in the cup that we aren't chasing anyway.

[Billy Whitehurst 885]

We have Sterry and Ameobi on the bench and Colback is still getting games.

 

Anyone who thinks we shouldn't have signed players is fucking mental.

 

There's a nasty side of me that almost hopes promotion goes tits up to serve the fuckers right.

I enjoy The Championship (lack of TV aside) even if the standard is woeful. We win most weeks, there are loads of games and the last 4/5 years in the Premier League were fucking miserable. This squad will get murdered in the Premier League and I can't see Ashley spending the money to make us anything other than relegation candidates.

 

For me, the main downside of not getting promoted would be that Rafa would probably walk and we'd end up with someone of Pardew and Kinnear's quality.

 

That said, we'll go up as we have Rafa, Shelvey, Gayle and Ritchie.

[The Fish 10685]

I agree with most of that. I still don't understand why we had to go right to the final day of the window with Townsend though. It's the sort of thing that should have been sorted early on in the month.

Did Townsend's availability become solid after Palace had secured their targets? :dunno?

[The Fish 10685]

I enjoy The Championship (lack of TV aside) even if the standard is woeful. We win most weeks, there are loads of games and the last 4/5 years in the Premier League were fucking miserable. This squad will get murdered in the Premier League and I can't see Ashley spending the money to make us anything other than relegation candidates.

 

For me, the main downside of not getting promoted would be that Rafa would probably walk and we'd end up with someone of Pardew and Kinnear's quality.

 

That said, we'll go up as we have Rafa, Shelvey, Gayle and Ritchie.

 

I don't think we'd need to spend that much to be better than 3 other teams in our first year back.

[ewerk 30221]

Did Townsend's availability become solid after Palace had secured their targets? :dunno?

 

They haven't signed a like for like replacement for him afaia.

[The Fish 10685]

They haven't signed a like for like replacement for him afaia.

No, a couple of leftbacks and a defensive midfielder (traditional Allardyce signings). Wonder if there was someone they were looking at, but couldn't make a deal and that then had a knock on effect with us?

[Andrew 4713]

No, a couple of leftbacks and a defensive midfielder (traditional Allardyce signings). Wonder if there was someone they were looking at, but couldn't make a deal and that then had a knock on effect with us?

 

 

They were after Robbie Brady but he went to Burnley instead, possibly explains why the deal was called off

[The Fish 10685]

They were after Robbie Brady but he went to Burnley instead, possibly explains why the deal was called off

 

That makes sense. Is Brady more of an Allardyce player than Townsend? I don't know enough about him, but surely Allardyce prefers a winger that gets chalk on his boots to one that cuts inside more often than not?

[Dr Gloom 21801]

Don't know how we managed to get to 58pts in 27 games, especially when we didn't even have Ameobi and Sterry.

 

Think you're confusing "want to" with "need to" to be honest. We remain presumptive champions, we remain odds-on to go up automatically. Would Townsend have kicked us on a gear, sure. But I don't think our promotion push is scuppered without him, and it's certainly not under threat because we didn't sign Mo fucking Barrow.

Successful teams make improvements from a position of strength.

 

I'm not saying we won't still win promotion but making a signing in this window is a statement that we want to keep moving forward, keeping players on their toes, letting them know they need to keep battling to get into the side.

 

I agree that it's a concern that colback is still getting so many games. Ditto Anita and Dummet.

 

There are obvious weaknesses in the squad that could have been addressed. Not buying a single player is either complacent, arrogant or Ashley reverting to type.

 

I wouldn't bet on us going up automatically if shelvey does a knee ligament.

[Billy Whitehurst 885]

I don't think we'd need to spend that much to be better than 3 other teams in our first year back.

Yes, but I can't see us doing anymore than that which was more my point. He'll spend the bare minimum to keep us up and we'll end being shite in the Premier League and fielding Lee Charmley and the tea ladies in the cup competitions. We've had loads of seasons like that (they were desperate times) and I don't see it changing.

 

I'm enjoying us winning, even if it is against the likes of Rotherham.

[The Fish 10685]

Successful teams make improvements from a position of strength.

 

I'm not saying we won't still win promotion but making a signing in this window is a statement that we want to keep moving forward, keeping players on their toes, letting them know they need to keep battling to get into the side.

 

I agree that it's a concern that colback is still getting so many games. Ditto Anita and Dummet.

 

There are obvious weaknesses in the squad that could have been addressed. Not buying a single player is either complacent, arrogant or Ashley reverting to type.

 

I wouldn't bet on us going up automatically if shelvey does a knee ligament.

 

Or an intransigence on the part of the other club, a lack of available targets, or targets being available at a more reasonable price in the summer, or players uninterested in joining a Championship team without assurances about playing time, or, or, or, 

 

I don't think any of us know enough about the machinations behind the curtain to state that it is definitely anything, we can suppose and assume and speculate, but nobody knows for sure.

 

I agree that had we signed someone like Townsend we would have been in a better place in our chase for promotion and yes, an impressive signing in the January window would have signalled intent. But is intent really worth spending £13m on? After every game Rafa says "We've got to keep working hard, we want to win every game, we want to be promoted", So does whichever player is wheeled out. Is our intent unclear? I don't like buying a player for buyings sake, there'd be criticism of a bloated squad of average players if we signed a bunch of cunts just because we can.

 

I genuinely believe that we've enough in the squad to get up automatically, if not as champions. 

[The Fish 10685]

Yes, but I can't see us doing anymore than that which was more my point. He'll spend the bare minimum to keep us up and we'll end being shite in the Premier League and fielding Lee Charmley and the tea ladies in the cup competitions. We've had loads of seasons like that (they were desperate times) and I don't see it changing.

 

I'm enjoying us winning, even if it is against the likes of Rotherham.

 

I think more than safety (>14th) would cost £100m in our first season. Aiming to jump from Championship to midtable would need a reliable striker in the Prem (£25m?), a strong pair of CBs (£30m?), a game changer in midfield (£20m?), and depth across the squad (£30m?).

 

I'm content to walk before we run.

[Rayvin 5164]

You think it'd take that much? There's a lot of shite at the lower end of the PL, I'm really not sure how far off we are from them.

 

Although I'll readily concede that it's not worth taking any risks.

[The Fish 10685]

You think it'd take that much? There's a lot of shite at the lower end of the PL, I'm really not sure how far off we are from them.

 

Although I'll readily concede that it's not worth taking any risks.

 

I do. We don't know if Championship stalwarts like Gayle, Shelvey, Hayden, Clark, Darlow will cut it in the top flight. To guarantee a midtable finish we can't risk half a season with them as lynch pins. We could probably rely on them to deliver 13th-17th with a few additions.

 

I reckon getting midtable over a couple of seasons would cost less than going for it in 1. Doing it in one means we have to hit the ground running, our stars, our squad and our staff need to perform a level that is several levels highers than they are now. Frankly I don't think Gayle will get 20 goals in the top flight, I don't think teams will afford Shelvey as much space and time, I don't think Darlow will face as few shots. I think that added difficulty will mean we can get safe but not much more than that. To guarantee more would mean overhauling the squad.

 

Over two seasons Mitrovic might suddenly find his feet in the summer after our first season back and become a 20 goal striker (he won't), a decent club might get relegated meaning we can steal their standout, wantaway star for buttons, we've more time to identify and court targets... dunno, it's hypothetical. But aim to guarantee safety 17/18, push for mediocrity in 18/19, see where we are and where we can get. Maybe even give the cups a proper fucking go?

[Rayvin 5164]

Aye good points and probably the way Ashley will look at it at least.

[The Fish 10685]

Aye good points and probably the way Ashley will look at it at least.

That's a dig.

 

[Dr Gloom 21801]

Or an intransigence on the part of the other club, a lack of available targets, or targets being available at a more reasonable price in the summer, or players uninterested in joining a Championship team without assurances about playing time, or, or, or, 

 

I don't think any of us know enough about the machinations behind the curtain to state that it is definitely anything, we can suppose and assume and speculate, but nobody knows for sure.

 

I agree that had we signed someone like Townsend we would have been in a better place in our chase for promotion and yes, an impressive signing in the January window would have signalled intent. But is intent really worth spending £13m on? After every game Rafa says "We've got to keep working hard, we want to win every game, we want to be promoted", So does whichever player is wheeled out. Is our intent unclear? I don't like buying a player for buyings sake, there'd be criticism of a bloated squad of average players if we signed a bunch of cunts just because we can.

 

I genuinely believe that we've enough in the squad to get up automatically, if not as champions. 

 

yes, he is worth £13m, that's what we sold him for 6 months ago, and we are sitting with a £30m net profit after that window.

 

i'm positive that we could have signed someone. the problem with ashley's approach is that too often it's a case of panic buying and rarely with a view to kick on from a position of strength. he'll splash the cash when we're struggling, but too often it's too late to address problems which could have been avoided if a squad had been gradually improved over time. 

[ewerk 30221]

Weren't Palace looking £15m inc. the loan fee? I don't see how his value has appreciated £2m in 6 months.

[The Fish 10685]

yes, he is worth £13m, that's what we sold him for 6 months ago, and we are sitting with a £30m net profit after that window.

 

i'm positive that we could have signed someone. the problem with ashley's approach is that too often it's a case of panic buying and rarely with a view to kick on from a position of strength. he'll splash the cash when we're struggling, but too often it's too late to address problems which could have been avoided if a squad had been gradually improved over time. 

 

Interesting you say that (and I don't disagree), but I see the eagerness to sign Townsend this window as a bit of panicking from the Newcastle fans. We're doing well in the league (you could say brilliantly were it not for Brighton's equally extraordinary season). If we maintain our average PpG we might even break 100pts. We surely don't need a player and certainly not a winger. 

 

Nobody seems as bothered that we didn't sign a Shelvey-like player which is clearly more of a concern. We didn't sign a striker in case Gayle's hamstring goes again. People are upset we didn't close a deal for Andros Townsend, a winger that would either share the right wing berth with Ritchie, push Ritchie to the opposite flank or be played out of position himself. I doubt that Townsend wants to be anything less than a guaranteed starter.

 

When you see the sums being asked for players like McCarthy and Cairney, I can understand why we didn't secure a CM. And strikers aren't going to be cheap, or interested in a substitute role behind Gayle.

 

I'm sure Rafa wanted players in, I don't know of a manager who doesn't want to buy players every window, but I'm confident that while disappointed nothing happened I don't think that he'll kick off given the context of the market.

[The Fish 10685]

Weren't Palace looking £15m inc. the loan fee? I don't see how his value has appreciated £2m in 6 months.

 

Maybe he found a few of CT's Roman coins behind the bench at Selhurst?

[Dr Gloom 21801]

Interesting you say that (and I don't disagree), but I see the eagerness to sign Townsend this window as a bit of panicking from the Newcastle fans. We're doing well in the league (you could say brilliantly were it not for Brighton's equally extraordinary season). If we maintain our average PpG we might even break 100pts. We surely don't need a player and certainly not a winger. 

 

Nobody seems as bothered that we didn't sign a Shelvey-like player which is clearly more of a concern. We didn't sign a striker in case Gayle's hamstring goes again. People are upset we didn't close a deal for Andros Townsend, a winger that would either share the right wing berth with Ritchie, push Ritchie to the opposite flank or be played out of position himself. I doubt that Townsend wants to be anything less than a guaranteed starter.

 

When you see the sums being asked for players like McCarthy and Cairney, I can understand why we didn't secure a CM. And strikers aren't going to be cheap, or interested in a substitute role behind Gayle.

 

I'm sure Rafa wanted players in, I don't know of a manager who doesn't want to buy players every window, but I'm confident that while disappointed nothing happened I don't think that he'll kick off given the context of the market.

 

it's hardly a panic buy. it's improving the squad incrementally. all successful clubs use this approach. ashley likes to keep his power dry until it looks like we're going to be relegated. 

 

gouffran is first choice out wide. townsend is a much better player. i would have liked to have seen someone brought in who could step into shelvey's shoes. i think this is where they saw mccarthy, thought hey are different players, at least he can create stuff. we've seen colback start way too many games this season. colback/hayden doesn't work - a we saw when shelvey was crocked. 

[Holden McGroin 6471]

Interesting you say that (and I don't disagree), but I see the eagerness to sign Townsend this window as a bit of panicking from the Newcastle fans. We're doing well in the league (you could say brilliantly were it not for Brighton's equally extraordinary season). If we maintain our average PpG we might even break 100pts. We surely don't need a player and certainly not a winger. 

 

Nobody seems as bothered that we didn't sign a Shelvey-like player which is clearly more of a concern. We didn't sign a striker in case Gayle's hamstring goes again. People are upset we didn't close a deal for Andros Townsend, a winger that would either share the right wing berth with Ritchie, push Ritchie to the opposite flank or be played out of position himself. I doubt that Townsend wants to be anything less than a guaranteed starter.

 

When you see the sums being asked for players like McCarthy and Cairney, I can understand why we didn't secure a CM. And strikers aren't going to be cheap, or interested in a substitute role behind Gayle.

 

I'm sure Rafa wanted players in, I don't know of a manager who doesn't want to buy players every window, but I'm confident that while disappointed nothing happened I don't think that he'll kick off given the context of the market.

 

We are 3 points ahead of third place.

 

If Shelvey gets injured id start to worry

Edited February 1, 2017 by Holden McGroin

[The Fish 10685]

it's hardly a panic buy. it's improving the squad incrementally. all successful clubs use this approach. ashley likes to keep his power dry until it looks like we're going to be relegated. 

 

gouffran is first choice out wide. townsend is a much better player. i would have liked to have seen someone brought in who could step into shelvey's shoes. i think this is where they saw mccarthy, thought hey are different players, at least he can create stuff. we've seen colback start way too many games this season. colback/hayden doesn't work - a we saw when shelvey was crocked. 

 

But if the next increment is in only 6 months time, is there much point in buying Townsend now?

 

Gouffran is first choice wide left, and while Townsend is much better than Gouffran, he doesn't play there. A Spurs fan I know joked that if you played him on the left, he'd still cut onto his left, take it out for a throw-in and then shoot. 

 

If we were in the chasing pack I think we would have strengthened, but we're doing very well and £15m for Townsend is gilding the lily imo.

[The Fish 10685]

We are 3 points ahead of third place.

 

If Shelvey gets injured id start to worry

Lets be clear, we're not just 3 points ahead of Reading, we're 3 points, 2 games and 27 goals ahead of 3rd place.

 

Yes, Shelvey is integral and I'd have liked to have seen a player brought in to help shoulder that burden, but Newcastle aren't the only party involved in transfers and if Everton are demanding market-inflated eye-watering sums for James McCarthy I understand why we didn't sign him. If we cannot assure the player he'll start every game I understand why a Premier League standard player (who are the only players we should be looking at) wouldn't want to drop down. If the other team wants cash up front so they can juggle their own squad, I can understand why they wouldn't let a player leave on a loan deal.