Henri Saivet

[The Fish 10872]

Taking a punt on a player is fine, as Gloomy says, if we're mid table or above. It's absolutely ridiculous when we're in the shit like we are now (unless it's acompanied with the signing of players who are what we need now).

 

Re the coaching, personally I currently think it's difficult to rate any of them but looking at their records you would expect them to be competent. I actually still think this is the case but you can only work with what's put in front of you. And what the've been given is a squad lacking in confidence, ability and interest.

 

We were in a position to attract Thomas Tuchel (before the Dortmund job was available), I don't doubt for a second, even with the same squad & the same backroom we'd be doing much, much better under him.

 

I genuinely think we've the players at the club who could get themselves out of trouble, but we don't have the head coach (much like last year). Best window would be new coach, and 3-4 new 1st team players to bolster the squad. I honestly don't think buying British* will have any impact. Especially when you see the players we're linked with. Shelvey and Berahino couldn't be more French if they tried.

 

So why not keep mining the foreign seam? We can convince someone like Papiss Cisse to join, we can't convince someone in similar form** in the Premier League to join.

 

 

*experienced in the British leagues.

** when we signed him, not now.

Edited January 11, 2016 by The Fish

[Tooj 17]

We were never in with a shout of getting the most promising manager in Germany to come here like.

[The Fish 10872]

We were never in with a shout of getting the most promising manager in Germany to come here like.

I wasn't part of the meetings, so I'll take your word for it.

[David Kelly 1245]

We were in a position to attract Thomas Tuchel (before the Dortmund job was available), I don't doubt for a second, even with the same squad & the same backroom we'd be doing much, much better under him.

 

I genuinely think we've the players at the club who could get themselves out of trouble, but we don't have the head coach (much like last year). Best window would be new coach, and 3-4 new 1st team players to bolster the squad. I honestly don't think buying British* will have any impact. Especially when you see the players we're linked with. Shelvey and Berahino couldn't be more French if they tried.

 

So why not keep mining the foreign seam? We can convince someone like Papiss Cisse to join, we can't convince someone in similar form** in the Premier League to join.

 

 

*experienced in the British leagues.

** when we signed him, not now.

I'm not saying (and have never said) that we should only be buying british. But good players (whatever their nationality) who have already played here will have a better chance of being able to effect positively our position in the reletively short time remaining this season. If we can't get those players we should be able to get good players with experience of playing in another country. We shouldn't be signing more young kids with very little experience (wherever they come from) or average players who are no better than what we have.

[The Fish 10872]

I'm not saying (and have never said) that we should only be buying british. But good players (whatever their nationality) who have already played here will have a better chance of being able to effect positively our position in the reletively short time remaining this season. If we can't get those players we should be able to get good players with experience of playing in another country. We shouldn't be signing more young kids with very little experience (wherever they come from) or average players who are no better than what we have.

That's a very small pool you're fishing in though.

[StoneColdStephenIreland 74]

Barring our Left back and CB options I think our first team on paper is alright (the one I'd choose and not Mclarens) but I think no matter who we sign there's always a risk, you look at Villa and Sunderland who over the years have bought experienced premiership players and they still fail. To me it's down to the manager and the manager we have now and previous managers haven't taken advantage of some of the talent we have.

[David Kelly 1245]

That's a very small pool you're fishing in though.

Come off it. There's only a small pool of players who are 25+, have been playing regularly and that have looked good throughout there career?

[The Fish 10872]

Come off it. There's only a small pool of players who are 25+, have been playing regularly and that have looked good throughout their career, who will sign for the team 18th in the Premier League?

[David Kelly 1245]

 

Come off it. There's only a small pool of players who are 25+, have been playing regularly and that have looked good throughout their career, who will sign for the team 18th in the Premier League?

 

They don't have to have been German or Brazilian internationals. Leicester signed Cambiasso last season and Inler this. The premier league offers players the opportunity to play on a much bigger stage and earn much more money. Do you really believe we can spend £13m on promissing youngsters like Mitrovic and Thauvin but can't sign more experienced players of a similar price?

[The Fish 10872]

They don't have to have been German or Brazilian internationals. Leicester signed Cambiasso last season and Inler this. The premier league offers players the opportunity to play on a much bigger stage and earn much more money. Do you really believe we can spend £13m on promissing youngsters like Mitrovic and Thauvin but can't sign more experienced players of a similar price?

 

I think we have. We signed Cabaye, Wijnaldum, and the de Jongs.

I'm saying that there's a risk in buying any player, that the Premier League players will; not need the exposure, cost more, demand more in wages, be as likely to flop. I honestly don't get the clamour for Premier League proven players when those that'd make the difference won't have any interest in joining us where we are now, and those that won't make a difference have the worst attributes of the foreign players and cost more.

 

Shelvey hasn't shone at Swansea for a while and Berahino is a stroppy little shit who is likely to throw a hissy fit if the team is built around him. This is the kind of experienced PRemier League player we can attract. We're not going to sign a proven premier league striker, because they're too busy proving themselves at a club above us in the league. It makes total sense to me to spend money on foreign imports and while, yes, I'd love us to be spending 10s of millions on players, the truth is that we cannot attract the finished article.

 

Cambiasso was a paycheque player fwiw

Edited January 11, 2016 by The Fish

[Dr Gloom 21959]

Not at all impressed by the thought of signing this guy. We don't need another average Frenchie who has no experiance in this league and done very little in his own league. I've also no confidence in our master scout at picking up unknown (apart from his days as a wonderkid on Champ Man) players from France who can be quality players in the premiership.

 

We spent £13m on Thauvin and he's been a massive flop so far and similar on Mitro and he's also struggling. £2m or £3m on someone that barely anyone has heard of isn't going to be a signing that drags us out of the shit we're in. For all the bollocks that the fat cunt, Penfold and Schteve spout, we're still looking to shop in the bargin basement and do anything but make our own luck.

 

spending £13m on a player who wasn't ready to go straight into the team and improve it from the outset is a perfect example of how ridiculous the current transfer strategy is. i don't think mcclaren fancies thauvin at all, and hasn't from the outset, which also highlights the flaws in the set up.

 

if ashley is behind mcclaren, he needs to back him now and do so by buying the experienced players we need, and i'm sure mcclaren wants. i'm pretty sure he mcclaren isn't going to want to pin our surival hopes on signing more unproven kids from abroad.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Dr Gloom

[David Kelly 1245]

spending £13m on a player who wasn't ready to go straight into the team and improve it from the outset is a perfect example of how ridiculous the current transfer strategy is. i don't think mcclaren fancies thauvin at all, and hasn't from the outset, which also highlights the flaws in the set up.

 

if ashley is behind mcclaren, he needs to back him now and do so by buying the experienced players we need, and i'm sure mcclaren wants. i'm pretty sure he mcclaren isn't going to want to pin our surival hopes on signing more unproven kids from abroad.

This is exactly my point. We buy unproven kids (and even worse than that, ones the manager doesn't seem to rate) because in the future we might make money on them. We seem to do this much more often than we actually try to sign the types and positions of players we need to improve the team.

 

It doesn't matter where the player comes from as long as hes ready to fit straight into the team. Young lads from abroad with no experience are very rarely ever able to do that. And neither are cheap also rans.

[strawb 4270]

Leicester bought Kante from France for about 5 mill, exactly what we need and miles better than Shelvey (also keeping Inler out of the team) But he wasn't proven so let's buy Voldemort instead..

 

There is only about 4 clubs who buy proven players in the league, mainly because they cost a bomb but ignoring the money, it's mainly because British players are over rated by fucking miles.

[ewerk 30647]

£5M fee agreed, player seems happy to come.

[The Fish 10872]

Leicester bought Kante from France for about 5 mill, exactly what we need and miles better than Shelvey (also keeping Inler out of the team) But he wasn't proven so let's buy Voldemort instead..

 

There is only about 4 clubs who buy proven players in the league, mainly because they cost a bomb but ignoring the money, it's mainly because British players are over rated by fucking miles.

 

I think there are two types of teams buying "proven Premier League" players. The title chasers who can buy the cream from the other clubs, and the sunderlands who try to suck the last bit of meat off a cast-off. Man Utd can convince Ross Barkley to trade up, sunderland will convince Phil Jones to help them survive relegation to the PornHub Championship in 2019/20 season.

[strawb 4270]

It's patently nonsense as well, with the amount of homegrown players not getting a game, how do all these other teams buy all these "proven" players? They don't of course, every team takes a risk with every signing.

 

Look at Leicester again, nobody would have been buzzing if we bough Vardy or Mahrez last summer, now people would snap your hand off for either. They were proven, and exactly the same players then as now.

[David Kelly 1245]

Of course it can work sometimes where you sign a player like Kante and he fits in and makes an impact immediately. But we really don't have a track record of bringing in such players and we are currently right in the shit. The point is not that we need to bring in an English player or even a proven premiership player. It's that we need to be looking at someone who can come in and make a difference in a relitively short space of time. Saivet's record suggests that it's a massive gamble to expect him to be able to do that and suggests that we are again tryiing to do something on the cheap rather than paying a proper amount for a proper player.

[Haydnator 45]

Well this may as well be happening.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

underwhelmed.

 

i hope he turns out to be mint, and he may well do, but i can't help but feel this is a another punt, and not really what we need in a relegation battle.

[David Kelly 1245]

underwhelmed.

 

i hope he turns out to be mint, and he may well do, but i can't help but feel this is a another punt, and not really what we need in a relegation battle.

Exactly my feelings.

 

Hopefully this leaves plenty of money for a proper striker and a leftback.

[strawb 4270]

Like I said there is a risk associated with every transfer, Lamela looked a world beater at Roma 30 million to Tottenham and he was dog eggs for 18 month. Unproven players are just as likely to hit the ground running as proven ones IMO.

 

I agree that we tend to do things on the cheap, which is why it's mad to pay mental money for bang average "proven" players like Shelvey or Townsend. Expecting the current regime to change their MO now and sign us the exact right players for big money is absolute nonsense however, if they wanted to do that we wouldn't be in this position.

[David Kelly 1245]

Like I said there is a risk associated with every transfer, Lamela looked a world beater at Roma 30 million to Tottenham and he was dog eggs for 18 month. Unproven players are just as likely to hit the ground running as proven ones IMO.

 

I agree that we tend to do things on the cheap, which is why it's mad to pay mental money for bang average "proven" players like Shelvey or Townsend. Expecting the current regime to change their MO now and sign us the exact right players for big money is absolute nonsense however, if they wanted to do that we wouldn't be in this position.

I disagree that there is the same risk to signing a proven player as an unproven and examples such as Lamella or Veron (going back a bit further) doesn't change that.

 

I agree with the rest of what you say though. I'd be at least as equally underwhelmed if we signed Townsend or Shelvey mind. I've seen enough of them to know how good they are. At least I'm just basing my doubts on Saivet on a record that looks nothing on paper.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

i would be happier with someone like townsend. he might not play in a position we desperately need filling, but he's got pace to burn and he can impact games plus he'll have something to prove ahead of the euros. if we got him, we could move sissoko or wijnaldum to a more central position.

[David Kelly 1245]

I'm yet to see Townsend do anything other than have a (usually ridiculous) shot from distance, particularly in the premier league. He's done slightly better for England. But he'd be exactly the sort of massively overhyped home grown player we don't want imo.

[strawb 4270]

I'm just not sure what constitutes proven really.

 

Like the finish article, at the top of his game, playing regularly for a good team? No chance of us signing them I'm afraid.