Donald Trump

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

5 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Have to get a dig in on Labour I see. 

Literally none of you, SB, or Rayvin have said what the Democrats could do differently other than some vague notion of turning the US into a socialist republic which is obviously impossible and really just batshit. 

The voting population of the US are living in a post truth post morality world now. The electorate is debased. I honestly can't see any solution to that now, other than they will have to go down the route of fascism until they wake up. But then, the country is the only hegemonic superpower left, it's not like any other country can stop them either. 

 

Incumbents run on their record. Biden promised to forgive student loan debt and to raisethe min wage to $15/hr. He did neither, then the Dems cuddled up to Liz Cheney to win over Republicans.

They also got sucked into fighting on Republican territory, immigration trans rights etc again sucking up to Republican voters who are never voting for them.

 

What should they have done differently. Keep your promises that affect the people you want to vote for you and campaign on medicare and abortion 

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

 

 

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

 

 

[ewerk 31199]

8 hours ago, Renton said:

 

The Senate the Republicans have control of? There is literally nothing to stop Trump doing what he wants now. There's not even anybody to temper his madness. 

I don’t think it’ll be as straightforward as that and will be a good indication of just where the Republican Party is at. RFK is obviously batshit crazy and most Republican senators know that. Many have just been returned for six years which means they’ll outlast Trump. It’ll be interesting to see whether any have the balls to stand up for what is right. The GOP only have a tiny majority so it only takes a couple to cause a problem then it’s up to Trump to decide whether it’s worth the battle.

[ewerk 31199]

6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

I was laughed out of the thread a week or so ago for saying we needed left wing equivalents of people like Tate.

Like a 2015 Russell Brand? But without the rapiness.

[NJS 4411]

2 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

 

Incumbents run on their record. Biden promised to forgive student loan debt and to raisethe min wage to $15/hr. He did neither, then the Dems cuddled up to Liz Cheney to win over Republicans.

They also got sucked into fighting on Republican territory, immigration trans rights etc again sucking up to Republican voters who are never voting for them.

 

What should they have done differently. Keep your promises that affect the people you want to vote for you and campaign on medicare and abortion 

Exactly. I said in 2016 that Trump went to the mining communities in West Virginia and told them he'd help them - complete bullshit but at least he went whereas Clinton basically told them they were fucked. 

 

The Dem elite see their stock portfolios gain and celebrate GDP growth as if it means something (as labour will) but the proverbial man in the street who's struggling just sees no hope or change. 

[Toonpack 9942]

https://www.popehat.com/p/and-yet-it-moves

 

Long read

[wykikitoon 20723]

10 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

https://www.popehat.com/p/and-yet-it-moves

 

Long read

 

Quote

The Rest is History and Fall of Civilizations, and I couldn’t help but notice that for most of history everything usually sucked.

Wars! Banditry! Plagues! Famine! Nothing resembling justice! Oppression! Frequent cruelty and death! Brutality as the unquestioned norm!

 

Stopped reading after this.

 

 

[Toonpack 9942]

8 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

 

 

Stopped reading after this.

 

 

 

Why?? That just reads like a tour guide for Yorkshire

[Renton 21992]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

Exactly. I said in 2016 that Trump went to the mining communities in West Virginia and told them he'd help them - complete bullshit but at least he went whereas Clinton basically told them they were fucked. 

 

The Dem elite see their stock portfolios gain and celebrate GDP growth as if it means something (as labour will) but the proverbial man in the street who's struggling just sees no hope or change. 

 

 

4 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

 

Incumbents run on their record. Biden promised to forgive student loan debt and to raisethe min wage to $15/hr. He did neither, then the Dems cuddled up to Liz Cheney to win over Republicans.

They also got sucked into fighting on Republican territory, immigration trans rights etc again sucking up to Republican voters who are never voting for them.

 

What should they have done differently. Keep your promises that affect the people you want to vote for you and campaign on medicare and abortion 

 

There are always things parties promise out of power and fail to deliver. I'm not going to check what Biden did and did not deliver, but I've noticed a tendency from sceptics here to cherry pick the data. What did Trump fail to deliver last time round? The US economy has boomed duirng their administration whilst the rest of the World stagnated. The US is once again establishing dominance over the EU and China. Average salary figures are truly shocking - in 2008 the UK had a higher median salary than the US, now we are 50% lower. Biden also introduced huge capital industrial expenditure (inflation reduction act, promoting green energy) the type of which you would normally support.  I also know that measure to reduce immigration on the Southern border were deliberately sabotaged by the Republicans. This is what they do and you ignore it.

 

Post covid the US has had a cost of living crisis along with the rest of the World. People were negativley affected. There is also a housing crisis, as there is here, Australia and Canada. In the rest of the World, we knew it was a global problem. Americans are insular and were easily manipulated by Trump to blame this on immigrants. Trump and the republicans lied and lied and lied to the US public, who because many are inherently racist, lapped it up. And you blame the result on the democrats. Yes, they under performed, but this is not fundamentally a problem with the democrats. It signals something much deeper and malignant. 

 

 

Edited November 7 by Renton

[Ayatollah Hermione 14052]

Something much deeper and malignant that the Democrats have allowed to happen because they simply have not offered anything worth believing in. Lie or otherwise. The time for morality has gone. That train has left the station and they didn’t even make an attempt to get on the cunt 

[Renton 21992]

2 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Something much deeper and malignant that the Democrats have allowed to happen because they simply have not offered anything worth believing in. Lie or otherwise. The time for morality has gone. That train has left the station and they didn’t even make an attempt to get on the cunt 

 

I disagree, yet again you highlight the ineffectiveness of the anticancer treatment rather than the cancer itself. They haven't been able to counter a false narrative authored by a coalition of oligarchs with vested interests using powerful new technologies, which they own.

When you are asked what the democrats should have offered, in a country that fundamentally hates anything perceived as socialist, you, like the democrats, have no answer. 

 

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

21 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

 

There are always things parties promise out of power and fail to deliver. I'm not going to check what Biden did and did not deliver, but I've noticed a tendency from sceptics here to cherry pick the data. What did Trump fail to deliver last time round? The US economy has boomed duirng their administration whilst the rest of the World stagnated. The US is once again establishing dominance over the EU and China. Average salary figures are truly shocking - in 2008 the UK had a higher median salary than the US, now we are 50% lower. Biden also introduced huge capital industrial expenditure (inflation reduction act, promoting green energy) the type of which you would normally support.  I also know that measure to reduce immigration on the Southern border were deliberately sabotaged by the Republicans. This is what they do and you ignore it.

 

Post covid the US has had a cost of living crisis along with the rest of the World. People were negativley affected. There is also a housing crisis, as there is here, Australia and Canada. In the rest of the World, we knew it was a global problem. Americans are insular and were easily manipulated by Trump to blame this on immigrants. Trump and the republicans lied and lied and lied to the US public, who because many are inherently racist, lapped it up. And you blame the result on the democrats. Yes, they under performed, but this is not fundamentally a problem with the democrats. It signals something much deeper and malignant. 

 

 

These are all arguments that would work for me, I would have voted for anybody over Trump, but the economy booming is great if you are doing well but it's meaningless for somebody whose wages have gone up less than inflation. The stock market being at a record high means nothing if you can't feed your family

[Renton 21992]

18 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

These are all arguments that would work for me, I would have voted for anybody over Trump, but the economy booming is great if you are doing well but it's meaningless for somebody whose wages have gone up less than inflation. The stock market being at a record high means nothing if you can't feed your family

 

My wages have gone up much less than inflation despite successive promotions and even moving from the public to private sector. Doesn't make me want to vote for a fascist though.

The US median wage is now nearly $60,000 pa, that's more than £46k. What type of job is that in the UK, a junior doctor, a senior nurse or teacher? Definitely graduate level job. Minimum wage in Claifornia is $16 per hour. How many Americans really can't afford to feed their family? The large majority of Americans are doing more than okay,and yet the majority still voted for Trump and utterly abhor policies that could improve their lives, because "they are communist".

[Holden McGroin 6783]

That’s because you have principals. Seems like Americans would rather save 25 cents on a loaf of bread and be okay with a convicted felon, sex offending, senile, misogynist, liar etc etc in charge.

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22147]

8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

 

People need to see political parties attacking those who make things unfair. Biden got a huge turnout from Democrats only to do next to fuck all while in power.

 

 

you keep saying this, but the IRA was genuinely a transformative piece of legislation, which trump will be powerless to overturn 

[Meenzer 15716]

15 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

My wages have gone up much less than inflation despite successive promotions and even moving from the public to private sector. Doesn't make me want to vote for a fascist though.

The US median wage is now nearly $60,000 pa, that's more than £46k. What type of job is that in the UK, a junior doctor, a senior nurse or teacher? Definitely graduate level job. Minimum wage in Claifornia is $16 per hour. How many Americans really can't afford to feed their family? The large majority of Americans are doing more than okay,and yet the majority still voted for Trump and utterly abhor policies that could improve their lives, because "they are communist".

 

Not that I broadly disagree with what you're saying (especially the first line) but I have the impression that food shopping in the US is more expensive than here, you basically have to have a car (or two for a family) if you live anywhere that isn't an urban centre plus the distances you cover are much further, and of course there's the small matter of no NHS. Plus prohibitive tuition fees if you're lucky enough to go to college, etc. I assume - though I'm happy to be corrected - that that skews the gross salary figures and depresses the bottom line in a way it doesn't so much over here.

[Meenzer 15716]

Oh, by the way, the German government just collapsed and if that means new elections, we can expect the far right to do quite well. Happy days!

 

[The Fish 10963]

9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

you keep saying this, but the IRA was genuinely a transformative piece of legislation, which trump will be powerless to overturn 

[Renton 21992]

2 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Not that I broadly disagree with what you're saying (especially the first line) but I have the impression that food shopping in the US is more expensive than here, you basically have to have a car (or two for a family) if you live anywhere that isn't an urban centre plus the distances you cover are much further, and of course there's the small matter of no NHS. Plus prohibitive tuition fees if you're lucky enough to go to college, etc. I assume - though I'm happy to be corrected - that that skews the gross salary figures and depresses the bottom line in a way it doesn't so much over here.

 

Healthcare and education costs come out of their post-tax net pay, true. Otherwise "communist" (and other than healthcare, we now have the same issue with education here). But this is what they want, Trump hasn't promised to change this. Not sure about food shopping now, its gone up loads but it has everywhere. Petrol also has gone up, but still ridiculously cheap stateside. Interestingly, I don't think Musk will help them with petrol costs. 

[Renton 21992]

6 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Oh, by the way, the German government just collapsed and if that means new elections, we can expect the far right to do quite well. Happy days!

 

 

Urghh, there will be a contagion effect. The EU is going to be massively tested. 

[trophyshy 7084]

Project 2025, a summary:

Government Structure and Bureaucracy

• Personnel Overhaul: Streamline federal hiring by implementing a "Conservative LinkedIn" for administration roles, and prepare appointees through the Presidential Administration Academy.
• Executive Power: Increase presidential control over executive agencies, reducing the autonomy of career bureaucrats, and aim to limit perceived “deep state” influence on policy decisions.

Economy and Financial Regulation

• Tax and Spending Reform: Cut taxes, reduce federal spending, and simplify the tax code to stimulate private sector growth.
• Regulation Rollback: Curb the powers of regulatory bodies like the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), aiming to lessen restrictions on businesses.
• Federal Reserve: Shift Federal Reserve policy focus towards economic stability and away from social or environmental objectives.

Energy and Environmental Policy

• Energy Independence: Expand domestic fossil fuel production by opening federal lands to drilling and reducing restrictions on oil, gas, and coal.
• Climate Policy Shift: De-emphasise climate change as a policy priority by scaling back initiatives aimed at reducing carbon emissions, reducing the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) role in climate regulation.
• Renewable Energy: Redirect government support away from renewable energy subsidies and towards fossil fuel investment.

Defence and Foreign Policy

• Military Prioritisation: Strengthen national defence by increasing the defence budget and refocusing on conventional military power rather than climate or diversity initiatives.
• Immigration Control: Reform immigration policies by building stronger border protections, limiting pathways to citizenship, and increasing deportations.

Social and Cultural Issues

• Education Reform: Encourage “school choice” policies, increase support for homeschooling, and reduce the Department of Education’s influence on curriculum standards, especially regarding diversity and equity.
• Gender and Family Policies: Restrict access to gender-affirming healthcare, and promote policies that prioritise traditional family structures. Project 2025 broadens the definition of "obscene" material to include a variety of LGBTQ+ content and discussions on gender identity, suggesting that these too should be restricted.
• Religious Liberty: Bolster protections for religious institutions and individuals, especially in healthcare and business sectors where actions may conflict with religious beliefs.
• Pornography: restricting access, positioning it as a societal harm comparable to drug addiction. Proposing a national ban on adult content, arguing that pornography is not protected by the First Amendment and should be outlawed. This plan entails criminal penalties for those producing, distributing, or facilitating access to such content. 
• Drugs: Project 2025 proposes a significant shift in federal marijuana policy, aiming to reinforce federal prohibition despite state-level legalisation efforts. The plan emphasises a zero-tolerance approach, potentially revoking protections for individuals and businesses operating under state marijuana legalisation frameworks.
• Guns: Project 25 proposes relaxing federal restrictions on gun ownership through measures like Concealed Carry Reciprocity (CCR). This proposal would require all states to recognise each other's concealed carry permits, allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms across state lines regardless of differing state regulations. This policy has raised concerns among experts and advocacy groups.

Law Enforcement and Legal Reform

• Judicial Reforms: Emphasise the appointment of conservative judges, and advocate for a strict interpretation of the Constitution.
• Crime Policy: Advocate for stricter penalties and increased federal support for local law enforcement, reducing reform-oriented approaches

Immigration and Border Management 

• Mass Deportations: The plan outlines a large-scale deportation strategy, which would include expanding "expedited removal" procedures for immigrants found anywhere in the U.S., not just near borders. This would enable ICE to conduct deportations more swiftly, potentially even in sensitive locations like schools and hospitals
• Militarization of Border Security: Project 2025 calls for enhanced use of military resources at the border, advocating for the deployment of National Guard personnel and increased construction of barriers. This focus on deterrence is aimed at preventing unlawful entries and would involve stricter enforcement measures, particularly impacting asylum seekers
• Wronguns Programme: People of dubious character, such as Gemmill for instance, will be encouraged to enter the country with a lifetime subscription to Obnoxious Accountants Online.
• Expanded Detention Facilities: The proposal suggests increasing detention capacity to hold up to 100,000 individuals awaiting deportation.
• Elimination of Specific Immigration Relief Programs: Key programs, such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS) for individuals from countries facing crises, would be cut. This could affect hundreds of thousands who currently have work authorisation under these protection.

 

 

Edited November 7 by trophyshy

[ewerk 31199]

They lost me with the anti-porn proposals but got me back again with their anti-Gemmill policy.

[Holden McGroin 6783]

41 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Oh, by the way, the German government just collapsed and if that means new elections, we can expect the far right to do quite well. Happy days!

 

 

Bad news.. 

 

When civilians financially struggle then it opens the door to the fringe parties. The far right seem to be slowly gaining ground all over the world at the moment .

[Holden McGroin 6783]

On a slightly different topic, there seems to be a mass entitlement running across this country (and I suspect others) where it's okay to abuse NHS staff/bus drivers/air stewards etc etc. Im not going to say Society is crumbling but the lack of respect is also rising rapidly.  There is an extra angst amongst people.

 

I wouldn't wish war on anyone (and hope  it doesn't happen) but it would certainly make the populace grateful for what we've got now. I just don't know how people can get common courtesy back. It may never come back.

Edited November 7 by Holden McGroin