Donald Trump

[Renton 21576]

47 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

One other thought on all this - the EU needs to federalise. We cannot waste any more time on the USA, the only reason any of us even care about this is because of how it fucks up the wider Western civilisation. I mean that was our civilisation to start with anyway, and the US can't be trusted to lead it anymore. Europe urgently needs to grow a pair. And we need to get the fuck back into it. I firmly believe a federal EU would be approximately as strong as the US anyway.

 

A federal Europe would be my dream too. Most people don't want that though. We didn't even want ot be in the EU as it is, a lot of Brits would genuinely prefer to be the 51st State. Never got the love affair personally. 

[spongebob toonpants 3994]

On 22/09/2020 at 11:38, spongebob toonpants said:

 

Quote

If the Dems don't sweep this election, give Puerto Rico and Washington  statehood and pack the Supreme Court, then USA election going forward will be about as fair as Russia's

 

This is what I said the Democrats should do if they won a trifecta in the last election, they won, they didn't and look where they are now

 

Starmer is now in the same position of strength, he can do whatever he wants. We won't be in this position again. Now is the time to sort Brexit, windfall tax the fuck put of billionaires and actually do something. Its literally now or never

[Toonpack 9385]

6 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

On 22/09/2020 at 11:38, spongebob toonpants said:

 

Starmer is now in the same position of strength, he can do whatever he wants. We won't be in this position again. Now is the time to sort Brexit, windfall tax the fuck put of billionaires and actually do something. Its literally now or never

But, but, but, the rules, fair play and all that, slow and steady it’s the British way. Meanwhile the cuntiest cunts are sprinting 🙄

[Renton 21576]

20 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

On 22/09/2020 at 11:38, spongebob toonpants said:

 

 

 

This is what I said the Democrats should do if they won a trifecta in the last election, they won, they didn't and look where they are now

 

Starmer is now in the same position of strength, he can do whatever he wants. We won't be in this position again. Now is the time to sort Brexit, windfall tax the fuck put of billionaires and actually do something. Its literally now or never

 

Fair play for that. Personally I'm massively uncomfortable with using small majorities to fix democracy in your favour, but I see the logic in sinking to your opponents level. Shows the system is broken, even though its a written constitution. 

Talking of which, not only does Trump have the trifecta, the supreme court and the popular vote mandate, he now has no democrat opponent and crucially nobody in his own party to stop him doing literally anything he wants. He has no excuses, nobody to blame for stopping him like last time. The only slight bit of hope that brings is he owns his own performance. So aye, he needs to deport 12 million people ASAP and give Putin Ukraine tomorrow. 

 

Edited November 6 by Renton

[aimaad22 4156]

Well good to see you've all taken this really well  

 

Will be sure to give a heads up when the shit hits the fan   

[Isegrim 9761]

Lest not forget.

 

It is all Gemmill‘s fault.

[Toonpack 9385]

[Dazzler 9716]

53 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

[Toonpack 9385]

@Renton

 

It begins, this is going to be mental 😂😂😂

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

I'm not having this "most incredible and biggest win ever" shite btw.
 

139million votes cast and less then 5million splitting them. 

[spongebob toonpants 3994]

9 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

I'm not having this "most incredible and biggest win ever" shite btw.
 

139million votes cast and less then 5million splitting them. 

Last time the Republicans won the popular vote was 2004. Before that it was 1988. Its a pretty big deal

[NJS 4377]

The dems lost 14m votes from 2020. They gained no "moderate" republicans. It's a shitshow. They learned nothing from 2016 and imo only won last time because of Covid. I find the fact that what lead Harris did have was reduced after the political geniuses of Jonathan Ainsworth and other Labour bigwigs went to advise them absolutely hilarious. 

[ewerk 30554]

36 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

@Renton

 

It begins, this is going to be mental 😂😂😂

He needs Senate approval. Even with Trump’s influence I still don’t see it as straightforward.

[Renton 21576]

34 minutes ago, ewerk said:

He needs Senate approval. Even with Trump’s influence I still don’t see it as straightforward.

 

The Senate the Republicans have control of? There is literally nothing to stop Trump doing what he wants now. There's not even anybody to temper his madness. 

[Renton 21576]

39 minutes ago, NJS said:

The dems lost 14m votes from 2020. They gained no "moderate" republicans. It's a shitshow. They learned nothing from 2016 and imo only won last time because of Covid. I find the fact that what lead Harris did have was reduced after the political geniuses of Jonathan Ainsworth and other Labour bigwigs went to advise them absolutely hilarious. 

 

Have to get a dig in on Labour I see. 

Literally none of you, SB, or Rayvin have said what the Democrats could do differently other than some vague notion of turning the US into a socialist republic which is obviously impossible and really just batshit. 

The voting population of the US are living in a post truth post morality world now. The electorate is debased. I honestly can't see any solution to that now, other than they will have to go down the route of fascism until they wake up. But then, the country is the only hegemonic superpower left, it's not like any other country can stop them either. 

[ohhh_yeah 2964]

 

   

 

[Rayvin 5217]

43 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Have to get a dig in on Labour I see. 

Literally none of you, SB, or Rayvin have said what the Democrats could do differently other than some vague notion of turning the US into a socialist republic which is obviously impossible and really just batshit. 

The voting population of the US are living in a post truth post morality world now. The electorate is debased. I honestly can't see any solution to that now, other than they will have to go down the route of fascism until they wake up. But then, the country is the only hegemonic superpower left, it's not like any other country can stop them 

 

I have said often enough that genuine and radical change is needed. Doesnt have to be socialist, but needs to truthfully address the issues.

They need a vision towards a better future that aims to address the real challenges people face with what now needs to be quite serious change. This has been my position with Labour for years.

 

This whole centrist "careful now" strategy is starting to seriously cost us.

 

I just saw the numbers on young people btw. 56% of men under 29 chose Trump. 56%!!! Incels amirite? It was 41% last time. He also improved, god help me, with young women! (40% compared to 33% last time).

 

What we are doing, is categorically not working. It just isn't.

[Rayvin 5217]

Also seems like some 10m Dem voters stayed home compared to last time? I saw that mentioned at least, haven't verified it. Amazing campaign though.

[Renton 21576]

22 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Also seems like some 10m Dem voters stayed home compared to last time? I saw that mentioned at least, haven't verified it. Amazing campaign though.

Completely ineffective campaign, clearly. The demographic numbers are horrendous. I just don't know how you counter Trumpism. He's Teflon, literally bullet proof. Half the country have no morals. They don't care he's a liar, sociopath and rapist. Hispanics don't care he is racist. Women ignore his misogyny. His obvious mental decline, no problem for him, that only applies to Biden.

I could go on. I don't know how you counter that. Would Sanders have won? I personally really don't think so. Most likely the Overton window in America will swing even further right as the country descends ever closer to outright fascism.

I'm worried about two things. The direct impact on the UK and Europe. Trade, economy, security, Ukraine. But much more, the spread of contagion. And I don't know how it can be stopped.

[Rayvin 5217]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

Completely ineffective campaign, clearly. The demographic numbers are horrendous. I just don't know how you counter Trumpism. He's Teflon, literally bullet proof. Half the country have no morals. They don't care he's a liar, sociopath and rapist. Hispanics don't care he is racist. Women ignore his misogyny. His obvious mental decline, no problem for him, that only applies to Biden.

I could go on. I don't know how you counter that. Would Sanders have won? I personally really don't think so. Most likely the Overton window in America will swing even further right as the country descends ever closer to outright fascism.

I'm worried about two things. The direct impact on the UK and Europe. Trade, economy, security, Ukraine. But much more, the spread of contagion. And I don't know how it can be stopped.

 

Sanders isn't the answer either and in fairness I don't think any one single person is. This isn't just a Trump victory, its a win for all the social media dude bros, Musk, Bannon, and more. He didn't solo this, he has a whole toxic movement that supports him. We do not have an equivalent.

 

I was laughed out of the thread a week or so ago for saying we needed left wing equivalents of people like Tate. I know I'm right about that, because those battlegrounds for the heart and soul of young people are completely uncontested by decent people.

 

Our campaigning is lazy and refuses to tackle the real issues. Trump isn't wrong that people hate the establishment. They do. I do. Self serving wankers who stifle meaningful change. Trump is obviously one of them, and will do nothing to combat them, but that's what he feeds on.

 

The establishment, left and right, has

failed. Collectively, across many strong actors, it needs to be overturned.

[Monkeys Fist 42379]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

I have said often enough that genuine and radical change is needed. Doesnt have to be socialist, but needs to truthfully address the issues

What’s the answer then? 
 

Easier said than done tbh- to counter the far-right you don’t need to swing far-left. 
 

So, centrism? 
 

That kind of describes Harris’ campaign to a tee. 
 

 

[Rayvin 5217]

9 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

What’s the answer then? 
 

Easier said than done tbh- to counter the far-right you don’t need to swing far-left. 
 

So, centrism? 
 

That kind of describes Harris’ campaign to a tee. 
 

 

 

Left wing economic policy would be my starting point but you don't actually need full blown socialism and you especially don't need to carry in wider left wing dogma. Social stuff could be more centrist because we've made more progress in that arena generally (doing so didn't cost shareholder profits). Instead the democrats approach this the other way around. Social stuff is easy, economic reform is hard.

 

People need to see political parties attacking those who make things unfair. Biden got a huge turnout from Democrats only to do next to fuck all while in power.

 

Mind you it can't just be left wing economic policy - it also needs to be attached to an overall vision for the future and a direction to move the country in. The centrists think we're at the end of history and just react to events as they come along. 

 

EDIT - I'm gonna add though that it's hardly my job to come up with this. But given that Trump has managed to galvanise support around some manner of vision, I think it's fair to compare the Democrats to what he has achieved.

[Monkeys Fist 42379]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm gonna add though that it's hardly my job to come up with this. But given that Trump has managed to galvanise support around some manner of vision, I think it's fair to compare the Democrats to what he has achieved.

That gives Trump far more credit than he’s due I think. 
 

Targeting the idiots isn’t particularly hard or revolutionary thinking. 
 

And he’s not exactly performing on any of his promises. 
 

I honestly see Trump as an aberration- if he’d never put himself in to politics, a huge amount of his MAGA cult would’ve just beetled away quietly being racists and hypocrites. 

Doesn’t make the shitstorm he’s leaving in his wake any easier to deal with, but he’s not going to go down in any political histories as a great planner and thinker. 
 

Covfefe

[Rayvin 5217]

Sure but he's definitely able to tap into a pre-existing zeitgeist. The democrats have somehow ended up making it look like they're the establishment in this bizarre reality. And they are, some of them, but not to the scale of the republicans.

 

The dems spent over $1bn in this campaign, more than Trump, and were wiped out. We can't just react anymore, we need to assert our playstyle on the opposition 😉

[RobinRobin 11258]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

Sure but he's definitely able to tap into a pre-existing zeitgeist. The democrats have somehow ended up making it look like they're the establishment in this bizarre reality. And they are, some of them, but not to the scale of the republicans.

 

The dems spent over $1bn in this campaign, more than Trump, and were wiped out. We can't just react anymore, we need to assert our playstyle on the opposition 😉

Yes, but how? 

At the end of the day, the phrase "it's the economy, stupid" which worked (together with a bit of racism).  No doubt Trump will see the benefit of work done over the last 4 years (after the Covid nightmare he created), but he simply cannot deliver on his promises of lower taxes for all or cheaper food and fuel.  Of course, he does not care.  He said what people wanted to hear.  Should Harris have promised the same?  

Trump has more personality than Harris, but he is spectacularly incompetent, relying on others around him.  If the voters are willing to accept his lies and take his promises at face value, then democracy has spoken. 

Musk has already said that the US needs to rip $2 trillion from spending.  Not sure how that is going to be achievable, especially with 15% company tax and no tax on overtime, etc, but it will impact a huge number of those who voted for Trump.

In another 4 years, he will be gone, if not sooner.  He does have a complete carte blanche in the meantime, so we have to worry about just how much he will fuck up, but hopefully, he will shuffle off.  John Oliver was pointing out the other night that he is getting into crypto currencies now and has promised to get rid of the SEC Chairman who wants to regulate the sector.  The rules about Presidents not benefitting from the Office will not apply to him.

He may also marry Ivanka and pardon himself afterwards, because it would be "Presidential" to have a new First Lady.  Melania is probably happy with that option, because she probably sees she is stuck with him of another 4 years.

That leaves Vance, and who knows what he will do, but he is more likely to be used as someone else's puppet, who will be more concerned with their pockets than blowing up the world.  

Can I offer an alternative?  No, but I don't believe that America is willing to accept left-leaning policies (aka communistic), so it really is left to dealing with the shit sandwich in front of you, but you still need to be honest.

Hopefully, MF's wish for AOC will happen, but she is already regarded as further left than Lenin by many.

 

 

Rant over.  Glad I live in Hobbiton, now.  Hopefully, we aren't targetted with nuclear warheads, on the basis that we are too far away for anyone to bother about us.