Dr Gloom 21245 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: People forget that when Corbyn took over Labour the centre desperately tried to tear him down. There was no united front, there were leadership challenges and gritted teeth. No different in my eyes to what we now see from the left concerning Starmer, though the left have been purged whereas the centre under Corbyn wasn't. What I'm trying to say with this is that people such as myself weren't devoted to Corbyn particularly for who he was, but because we genuinely do believe that significant and meaningful change is needed to actually avert a slow and miserable decline into the shit. Starmer may be more able to 'win' but he doesn't deliver what some of us believe is required. Same with Biden. So sometimes I look at all the Starmer devotees as people who are essentially survivors from an abusive relationship. They are so fearful of being forced back with their abuser that they cling to the safest option. Biden is the safe option for the US. The devil you know. His supporters just want to win, they don't care what they have to support to do so. It's more important to keep Trump out than to have the right person in - and that more than anything is the theme of the centre and the left right across the western world. Biden's Inflation Reduction Act was a transformational piece of legislation, which has used the green transition to create billions of dollars of inward investment and created thousands of skilled jobs across the country, which had previously been outsourced to China and elsewhere. I would love Starmer to be so bold with infrastructure spending, but I'm worried Rachel Reeves looks like a diet George Osborne. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm prepared to judge them on what they do now they're actually in power. You'd hope it's an improvement on the past 15 years. Edited July 16 by Dr Gloom 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 16474 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Here’s your next VP folks, he’s a bit like Sauron from lord of the rings which is more than a bit ironic… https://sfstandard.com/opinion/2024/07/15/with-jd-vance-as-vp-peter-thiel-would-finally-have-trump-right-where-he-wants-him/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 30 minutes ago, Alex said: The antisemitic cunt helped deliver Brexit is an equally valid take. Literally at least partially responsible for accelerating the decline. Absolutely incapable of doing anything and being happy / preferring to be radical from the safety of opposition is another 👍🏻 Not sure this is really a response to my point but as usual I'll just leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29419 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21245 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 34 minutes ago, Alex said: The antisemitic cunt helped deliver Brexit is an equally valid take. Literally at least partially responsible for accelerating the decline. Absolutely incapable of doing anything and being happy / preferring to be radical from the safety of opposition is another 👍🏻 this is the main issue i have with corbyn and his cult. they'd rather be principled in opposition than do what is needed to be done to win power and change people's lives for the better. the truth is the majority of people in this country are boring centrists. you have to workout how to speak to the floating voters in the middle who decide elections, something which was beyond corbyn's skills as a politician 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 6 minutes ago, ewerk said: Devout republican. So does she mean God wouldn't want her to talk to Biden or she felt Biden wouldn't want to talk to her? She seems like a decent person from the rest of it, albeit misguided. I don't think this is on Biden at all tbh, shooter seems to be right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 8314 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 8 minutes ago, ewerk said: “Devout republican” they truly see it as religious and Trump as their god don’t they? Fucking lunatics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29419 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 What was more shocking to me was that Trump hasn't even bothered to attempt to contact her. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 29419 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Meanwhile in Australia: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 33985 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Not sure this is really a response to my point but as usual I'll just leave it. I apologise. It was more aimed at those still devoted to that tit. I get why people initially supported him. The two are not always the same. Re: Starmer he deserves a chance and his (possible) slow steady approach may be what is needed. Because too much damage has been done for any radical quick fixes to work. What I would say, and I’ve gone over this many times, is the real need for electoral reform and some form of PR. There’s not going to be a radical lurch to the left that ever fixes everything. Where has that ever really been a solution? If I take an example of a modern constitutional monarchy, like say for example Denmark , then you have a country that works well and has a happy populace in comparison to almost anywhere else. With very little corruption in government. Is this because of radical policies? No, there’s essentially a CENTRIST!!! agenda. It works because the parties have to work together and compromise. No party ever really having a majority means the government is constantly scrutinised by its own parliament. And unless we change our voting system we’re doomed to the cycle of middle England voting in what it perceives to be its own interests and perpetuating the decline we both want to reverse. Edited July 16 by Alex 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 8314 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, ewerk said: What was more shocking to me was that Trump hasn't even bothered to attempt to contact her. I have to presume you’re joking. Why would that be shocking? A man who has spent his life only caring about himself is not going to suddenly develop empathy in his 70s. The fact he hasn’t rang her but she’s still “devout” to the republicans proves he could literally go to each of their houses each morning and shit in their breakfast and they’d still vote for him. America is lost, sink the whole place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 8314 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: Meanwhile in Australia: Someone should tell the bloke that Trump isn’t the president and hasn’t been for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20355 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: What was more shocking to me was that Trump hasn't even bothered to attempt to contact her. From what I can tell, the man the bullet killed was a decent caring individual compared with the man the bullet was intended for who is a corrupt, narcissistic, venal psychopath. God works in mysterious ways doesn't he. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 The fucking idiots like Big Lugs Marco Rubio (seriously check the size of that cunt's ears he's like Dumbo) claiming God stepped in to save Trump. Would God not have just fixed it so the engine didn't start on the kid's car? Or that he fell trying to climb on the roof and sprained his ankle. Why would God let the kid get shots off and just give Trump's massive head a little twist at the last second, allowing others to die in the process. Religion is a straight up mental illness. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 33985 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 They thank god for fucking everything. Like god made you win the Olympic gold medal because he wanted you to win and the others to lose? Why would a deity do that? And, if they did, like with ‘saving’ Trump but letting others die, why the fuck would you worship that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10404 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 21 minutes ago, ewerk said: What was more shocking to me was that Trump hasn't even bothered to attempt to contact her. Depressingly not that shocking, he was off playing golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4240 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Alex said: They thank god for fucking everything. Like god made you win the Olympic gold medal because he wanted you to win and the others to lose? Why would a deity do that? And, if they did, like with ‘saving’ Trump but letting others die, why the fuck would you worship that? I remember a teacher of mine who I otherwise respected saying that he'd stopped praying for Sunderland to score because he'd realised there could be a fan of the other team praying for their team as well - not because the whole concept was batshit crazy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5127 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 24 minutes ago, Alex said: I apologise. It was more aimed at those still devoted to that tit. I get why people initially supported him. The two are not always the same. Re: Starmer he deserves a chance and his (possible) slow steady approach may be what is needed. Because too much damage has been done for any radical quick fixes to work. What I would say, and I’ve gone over this many times, is the real need for electoral reform and some form of PR. There’s not going to be a radical lurch to the left that ever fixes everything. Where has that ever really been a solution? If I take an example of a modern constitutional monarchy, like say for example Denmark , then you have a country that works well and has a happy populace in comparison to almost anywhere else. With very little corruption in government. Is this because of radical policies? No, there’s essentially a CENTRIST!!! agenda. It works because the parties have to work together and compromise. No party ever really having a majority means the government is constantly scrutinised by its own parliament. And unless we change our voting system we’re doomed to the cycle of middle England voting in what it perceives to be its own interests and perpetuating the decline we both want to reverse. I know PR won't deliver a left wing utopia, I support it because it means I can vote on principle without having to worry about enabling the right. It's also just fairer. Also I really didn't come at this point with a view to the wider left/right/centre debate. It was more about political tribalism - the centrist contingent of British politics has, to my eyes, behaved much the same as the Corbyn supporting left did. That article mentions people in a cult signalling themselves by condemning anyone who views things in a different way to them and so on - that is honestly how I have often been met (not necessarily on here, the guardian comment section has a lot to answer for too) when I have criticised Starmer or current Labour. So my point is that we are all now in our bubbles of self reinforcing truths and it seems a bit odd to criticise the Biden contingent uniquely for it. I'm not pro Biden either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 10656 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 I'm afraid that PR results in fuckwits like Senator Babet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3693 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 PR stops ideologically driven governments as there is rarely a majority so deals have to be done 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21245 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 PR almost allowed the far-right in in france. there are pros and cons to both electoral systems. the good thing about fptp is it keeps the extremists out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 42458 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 I like the French system where you get a shot at it one weekend and the chance to go "let's pump the brakes lads, the racists are winning" for the next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 8314 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 20 minutes ago, RobinRobin said: I'm afraid that PR results in fuckwits like Senator Babet. Reddit on Mr Babet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 33985 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Talking about other countries somewhat ignores that practically every general election we’ve had would’ve returned a progressive coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21245 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 40 minutes ago, Alex said: Talking about other countries somewhat ignores that practically every general election we’ve had would’ve returned a progressive coalition. there is a danger with pr that you give more of a platform to extremists who threaten democracy - look at the share of the popular vote that reform just got here, and the rise of the far right across europe, where pr is prevalent. neither system is perfect, pr is the more democratic system, where every vote does count, but it doesn't come without dangers. it might force consensus building, in difficult times it might also embolden the far-right, who hope to undermine our democracy, and the bad actors from abroad who finance them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now