ewerk 33076 Posted yesterday at 16:46 Share Posted yesterday at 16:46 Aren't a lot of these minerals in the Donbas region? So a deal with America should be sort of contingent on the Russian's fucking off out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 49697 Posted yesterday at 16:49 Share Posted yesterday at 16:49 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: Aren't a lot of these minerals in the Donbas region? So a deal with America should be sort of contingent on the Russian's fucking off out of there. Couldn't tell you, you might be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18952 Posted yesterday at 16:50 Share Posted yesterday at 16:50 Zelensky will sign, resign as president and there will be elections where some as yet (media) unidentified Putin puppet will be “elected” . Expect anyone bold enough to stand against this individual to be vilified and their allies intimidated. Election observers will have a list of complaints like something written by Lewis Grassic Gibbon. Then Ukraine will be like Belarus; compliant, autocratic and mostly irrelevant. Apart from the odd outbreak of rebel violence in Oblast areas newly taken by Putin which will give him the opportunity to invade again, see Chechnya, Georgia and Moldova for details 😑 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33076 Posted yesterday at 16:56 Share Posted yesterday at 16:56 6 minutes ago, Gemmill said: Couldn't tell you, you might be right. I'm rarely wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23584 Posted yesterday at 16:59 Share Posted yesterday at 16:59 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: I'm rarely wrong. Wrong, maybe not. Late, yes. I made the point weeks ago. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23584 Posted yesterday at 17:00 Share Posted yesterday at 17:00 9 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Zelensky will sign, resign as president and there will be elections where some as yet (media) unidentified Putin puppet will be “elected” . Expect anyone bold enough to stand against this individual to be vilified and their allies intimidated. Election observers will have a list of complaints like something written by Lewis Grassic Gibbon. Then Ukraine will be like Belarus; compliant, autocratic and mostly irrelevant. Apart from the odd outbreak of rebel violence in Oblast areas newly taken by Putin which will give him the opportunity to invade again, see Chechnya, Georgia and Moldova for details 😑 Not sure many Ukrainians would accept that after losing loved one in massacres like Bucha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 23549 Posted yesterday at 17:06 Share Posted yesterday at 17:06 19 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I don't think this has changed anything about what Europe now knows it has to do. It's just the timescales for that don't correlate to the timescales Zelensky is working to. If Zelensky ends up giving up territory to Putin and minerals to Trump, Ukraine has been completely shafted though, I know that. not much was agreed at the UK summit other than a nice group photo on the steps of Lancaster House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 49697 Posted yesterday at 17:08 Share Posted yesterday at 17:08 I don't think that's fair. I think "Europe has woken up" as Tusk said. We now all know that the world has changed and they're reacting to that. I suspect Zelensky's statement today has been discussed and agreed with the same group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 10325 Posted yesterday at 17:27 Share Posted yesterday at 17:27 I really don’t want to predict what is going to happen next and if others really have the stomach to stand up to the likes of Russia as well as the US. It looks like a combined effort but they just might grab enough nations at their pussies… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11905 Posted yesterday at 17:31 Share Posted yesterday at 17:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 23549 Posted yesterday at 17:45 Share Posted yesterday at 17:45 59 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I don't think this has changed anything about what Europe now knows it has to do. It's just the timescales for that don't correlate to the timescales Zelensky is working to. If Zelensky ends up giving up territory to Putin and minerals to Trump, Ukraine has been completely shafted though, I know that. i think that’s the direction of travel tbh. Trump hasn’t attempted to pretend which side he’s on, backing Russia at the UN, parroting Russian propaganda, calling Zelenskyy a dictator etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 23549 Posted yesterday at 17:47 Share Posted yesterday at 17:47 46 minutes ago, Renton said: Wrong, maybe not. Late, yes. I made the point weeks ago. the only argument better than I’m right, you’re wrong: I was first 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18952 Posted yesterday at 18:01 Share Posted yesterday at 18:01 (edited) 1 hour ago, Renton said: Not sure many Ukrainians would accept that after losing loved one in massacres like Bucha. Not wanting to accept it is one thing, being under the constant threat of violence by a dominant and now unopposed neighbour is another. There’s nothing to stop Putin now, it’s over. There will be semblance of nationhood but Ukraine will be dominated by Russia and resistance will be brutally crushed. They may emerge as a democratic nation again after Trump and Putin are gone but both will try to leave some sort of bullshit legacy where the absolute stitch up they’ve just pulled will be seen as some sort of achievement Edited yesterday at 18:02 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18952 Posted yesterday at 18:17 Share Posted yesterday at 18:17 Big Lech here, world leader of all sparkies and ancillary trades, also in his spare time President of Poland, booting Putin square in the fuckin stones ✊🏻 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 23584 Posted yesterday at 18:22 Share Posted yesterday at 18:22 Wow, powerful blast from the past that. Meanwhile the Dow is crashing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5101 Posted yesterday at 19:00 Share Posted yesterday at 19:00 I usually stay well away from these threads as I see no benefit in a daily self inflicted dose of gloom that I can do nothing about. This evening I have some time spare so have had a flick through. Over the last few days I can’t even bring myself to watch the Oval Office stuff as I know it will sicken me. The idea that Europe is going to step up and take Americas place as Western policeman is for the birds. Our governments like to look tough and talk the talk, but there’s not a hope they are going to dig deep and spend the sort of money that would be required. As for Trump (and the real power above him), I think they are just desperate to get their hands on the minerals and not have to be reliant on China. They couldn’t really care what batshit stuff Putin gets up to, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their main goal. It’s sad how this will end for Ukraine, but it’s been brewing for years. At least they will have the security of the USA once it has all its companies in their milking the minerals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 18952 Posted yesterday at 19:16 Share Posted yesterday at 19:16 We’ve not had a Kendzior for a few days @Gemmill this one instructs you to buy the most important book of the last decade 🫵🏻 https://bsky.app/profile/sarahkendzior.bsky.social/post/3ljkuw2pduc2m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 10325 Posted yesterday at 19:16 Share Posted yesterday at 19:16 57 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Big Lech here, world leader of all sparkies and ancillary trades, also in his spare time President of Poland, booting Putin square in the fuckin stones ✊🏻 Ah, Poland. Such a nice place to invade [/Hitler/Stalin//Isegrim/Putin//Trump] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7601 Posted yesterday at 19:17 Share Posted yesterday at 19:17 3 hours ago, Toonpack said: He literally had a dig at Starmer for "killing free speech in the UK" a few days ago 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33076 Posted 22 hours ago Share Posted 22 hours ago 4 hours ago, Isegrim said: I really don’t want to predict what is going to happen next and if others really have the stomach to stand up to the likes of Russia as well as the US. It looks like a combined effort but they just might grab enough nations at their pussies… Aye, we need a bit more of that 1939 German fighting spirit. 💪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastronaut 1368 Posted 21 hours ago Share Posted 21 hours ago 5 hours ago, PaddockLad said: Zelensky will sign, resign as president and there will be elections where some as yet (media) unidentified Putin puppet will be “elected” . Expect anyone bold enough to stand against this individual to be vilified and their allies intimidated. Election observers will have a list of complaints like something written by Lewis Grassic Gibbon. Then Ukraine will be like Belarus; compliant, autocratic and mostly irrelevant. Apart from the odd outbreak of rebel violence in Oblast areas newly taken by Putin which will give him the opportunity to invade again, see Chechnya, Georgia and Moldova for details 😑 Ah shit. I was thinking it couldn't be quite as clear cut as that as we've been through all that fairly recently, culminating in the Orange Revolution. But you've just made me realise that this drawn out war might just have been Putin playing the long game to simply weaken Ukraine to the point that the next Orange Revolution will be a non-starter a second time around. I hope we're wrong but if Europe and Canada don't rally around Ukraine Im not sure I can see a different outcome. Conjecture time: NATO is completely compromised now that the US (probably it's main producer of arms and most influential member state) is now acting in the interests of the exact thing NATO was created to defend us from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastronaut 1368 Posted 20 hours ago Share Posted 20 hours ago 3 hours ago, Christmas Tree said: The idea that Europe is going to step up and take Americas place as Western policeman is for the birds. Our governments like to look tough and talk the talk, but there’s not a hope they are going to dig deep and spend the sort of money that would be required. Aye. And even if we did, we're more than just fairly reliant on the US to actually sell us the weapons we have been giving to Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 12433 Posted 17 hours ago Share Posted 17 hours ago 7 hours ago, Christmas Tree said: I usually stay well away from these threads as I see no benefit in a daily self inflicted dose of gloom that I can do nothing about. This evening I have some time spare so have had a flick through. Over the last few days I can’t even bring myself to watch the Oval Office stuff as I know it will sicken me. The idea that Europe is going to step up and take Americas place as Western policeman is for the birds. Our governments like to look tough and talk the talk, but there’s not a hope they are going to dig deep and spend the sort of money that would be required. As for Trump (and the real power above him), I think they are just desperate to get their hands on the minerals and not have to be reliant on China. They couldn’t really care what batshit stuff Putin gets up to, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their main goal. It’s sad how this will end for Ukraine, but it’s been brewing for years. At least they will have the security of the USA once it has all its companies in their milking the minerals. Is this the day when CT ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5918 Posted 16 hours ago Share Posted 16 hours ago 8 hours ago, Christmas Tree said: The idea that Europe is going to step up and take Americas place as Western policeman is for the birds. Our governments like to look tough and talk the talk, but there’s not a hope they are going to dig deep and spend the sort of money that would be required. Unsure about that one... What the EU can't do is quickly become that, but it's not as if it doesn't have the economic clout to do so. There is a reason that some of us have been advocating closer and closer ties with them, and it's not because we just enjoy visa free holidays. Strategically it makes a lot of sense and would make the collective a counterbalance to US or Chinese power in a way that clearly individual nation states in their own right can never be. The problem is that we're overrun by our own pack of (IMO) traitors voting against European interests at every occasion in favour of petty parochial nonsense. What is happening to Ukraine should be a good example of why nation states like the UK can't go it alone. The super powers, if they ever want to, can crush us. Where is our sovereignty god then? £800bn on rearming is not nothing, It's equivalent to US yearly military spend (although they also have to fund their various far flung bases and outposts, so in a consolidated Europe this figure is more powerful). Europe doesn't have to replace the US as a world police force, it just has to be compact and vicious enough to defend itself and its borders. It is absolutely capable of doing that. Diplomacy with Canada and East Asian democratic powers is a significant next step beyond that as the US plunges into isolationism. Ironically, all of this should be music to Trump's ears - but apparently he's throwing tantrums because he's meant to be centre stage and Europe wasn't supposed to be trying to find alternative answers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7308 Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago Worth a read. https://www.facebook.com/share/166MysBw8d/?mibextid=wwXIfr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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