Donald Trump

[Renton 21588]

48 minutes ago, trophyshy said:

Project 2025, a summary:

Government Structure and Bureaucracy

• Personnel Overhaul: Streamline federal hiring by implementing a "Conservative LinkedIn" for administration roles, and prepare appointees through the Presidential Administration Academy.
• Executive Power: Increase presidential control over executive agencies, reducing the autonomy of career bureaucrats, and aim to limit perceived “deep state” influence on policy decisions.

Economy and Financial Regulation

• Tax and Spending Reform: Cut taxes, reduce federal spending, and simplify the tax code to stimulate private sector growth.
• Regulation Rollback: Curb the powers of regulatory bodies like the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), aiming to lessen restrictions on businesses.
• Federal Reserve: Shift Federal Reserve policy focus towards economic stability and away from social or environmental objectives.

Energy and Environmental Policy

• Energy Independence: Expand domestic fossil fuel production by opening federal lands to drilling and reducing restrictions on oil, gas, and coal.
• Climate Policy Shift: De-emphasise climate change as a policy priority by scaling back initiatives aimed at reducing carbon emissions, reducing the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) role in climate regulation.
• Renewable Energy: Redirect government support away from renewable energy subsidies and towards fossil fuel investment.

Defence and Foreign Policy

• Military Prioritisation: Strengthen national defence by increasing the defence budget and refocusing on conventional military power rather than climate or diversity initiatives.
• Immigration Control: Reform immigration policies by building stronger border protections, limiting pathways to citizenship, and increasing deportations.

Social and Cultural Issues

• Education Reform: Encourage “school choice” policies, increase support for homeschooling, and reduce the Department of Education’s influence on curriculum standards, especially regarding diversity and equity.
• Gender and Family Policies: Restrict access to gender-affirming healthcare, and promote policies that prioritise traditional family structures. Project 2025 broadens the definition of "obscene" material to include a variety of LGBTQ+ content and discussions on gender identity, suggesting that these too should be restricted.
• Religious Liberty: Bolster protections for religious institutions and individuals, especially in healthcare and business sectors where actions may conflict with religious beliefs.
• Pornography: restricting access, positioning it as a societal harm comparable to drug addiction. Proposing a national ban on adult content, arguing that pornography is not protected by the First Amendment and should be outlawed. This plan entails criminal penalties for those producing, distributing, or facilitating access to such content. 
• Drugs: Project 2025 proposes a significant shift in federal marijuana policy, aiming to reinforce federal prohibition despite state-level legalisation efforts. The plan emphasises a zero-tolerance approach, potentially revoking protections for individuals and businesses operating under state marijuana legalisation frameworks.
• Guns: Project 25 proposes relaxing federal restrictions on gun ownership through measures like Concealed Carry Reciprocity (CCR). This proposal would require all states to recognise each other's concealed carry permits, allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms across state lines regardless of differing state regulations. This policy has raised concerns among experts and advocacy groups.

Law Enforcement and Legal Reform

• Judicial Reforms: Emphasise the appointment of conservative judges, and advocate for a strict interpretation of the Constitution.
• Crime Policy: Advocate for stricter penalties and increased federal support for local law enforcement, reducing reform-oriented approaches

Immigration and Border Management 

• Mass Deportations: The plan outlines a large-scale deportation strategy, which would include expanding "expedited removal" procedures for immigrants found anywhere in the U.S., not just near borders. This would enable ICE to conduct deportations more swiftly, potentially even in sensitive locations like schools and hospitals
• Militarization of Border Security: Project 2025 calls for enhanced use of military resources at the border, advocating for the deployment of National Guard personnel and increased construction of barriers. This focus on deterrence is aimed at preventing unlawful entries and would involve stricter enforcement measures, particularly impacting asylum seekers
• Wronguns Programme: People of dubious character, such as Gemmill for instance, will be encouraged to enter the country with a lifetime subscription to Obnoxious Accountants Online.
• Expanded Detention Facilities: The proposal suggests increasing detention capacity to hold up to 100,000 individuals awaiting deportation.
• Elimination of Specific Immigration Relief Programs: Key programs, such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS) for individuals from countries facing crises, would be cut. This could affect hundreds of thousands who currently have work authorisation under these protection.

 

 

 

That's absolutely terrifying. Only one thing on that list I agree with. It's about as far away from the America of my youth as its possible to be. 

[Renton 21588]

9 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

On a slightly different topic, there seems to be a mass entitlement running across this country (and I suspect others) where it's okay to abuse NHS staff/bus drivers/air stewards etc etc. Im not going to say Society is crumbling but the lack of respect is also rising rapidly.  There is an extra angst amongst people.

 

I wouldn't wish war on anyone (and hope  it doesn't happen) but it would certainly make the populace grateful for what we've got now. I just don't know how people can get common courtesy back. It may never come back.

 

 

Except in the UK, it's usually some unemployed charver cunt hurling abuse who come out with this. 

[Holden McGroin 6582]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

Except in the UK, it's usually some unemployed charver cunt hurling abuse who come out with this. 

 

Aye. The Mrs gets that one a lot. There should be repercussions for lack of respect

[Rayvin 5217]

34 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

On a slightly different topic, there seems to be a mass entitlement running across this country (and I suspect others) where it's okay to abuse NHS staff/bus drivers/air stewards etc etc. Im not going to say Society is crumbling but the lack of respect is also rising rapidly.  There is an extra angst amongst people.

 

I wouldn't wish war on anyone (and hope  it doesn't happen) but it would certainly make the populace grateful for what we've got now. I just don't know how people can get common courtesy back. It may never come back.

 

Think we can blame Thatcher for this one. Turned people from citizens into consumers - that was a foundational point in Neoliberalism as I recall.

[wykikitoon 20115]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0k2wnw3

 

Interesting listen

 

[Renton 21588]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Think we can blame Thatcher for this one. Turned people from citizens into consumers - that was a foundational point in Neoliberalism as I recall.

 

No, blame social media, again. Thatcher died years ago and has been out of power 35 years! This is a much more recent thing. Whether you're called a customer/consumer/ citizen/passenger/patient makes no odds, just people being dicks. 

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, Renton said:

 

No, blame social media, again. Thatcher died years ago and has been out of power 35 years! This is a much more recent thing. Whether you're called a customer/consumer/ citizen/passenger/patient makes no odds, just people being dicks. 

 

Her philosophy has been continuing though, we remain a Neoliberal society. Also I recall reading a piece a while ago about how students were interpreting their university experience differently now that they were being considerably higher costs - they rated professors, demanded more from their courses, they were quite aggressive about getting their money's worth. With everything costing more this seems reasonable.

 

I suppose you could argue that in a world with less excess, there is less charity, both in sentiment and money.

[Gemmill 44811]

FTR Renton, I just keep marking this thread as read. It's all rainbows and unicorns in my house. 

[Renton 21588]

 

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

FTR Renton, I just keep marking this thread as read. It's all rainbows and unicorns in my house. 

 

 

Edited November 7 by Renton

[Renton 21588]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Her philosophy has been continuing though, we remain a Neoliberal society. Also I recall reading a piece a while ago about how students were interpreting their university experience differently now that they were being considerably higher costs - they rated professors, demanded more from their courses, they were quite aggressive about getting their money's worth. With everything costing more this seems reasonable.

 

I suppose you could argue that in a world with less excess, there is less charity, both in sentiment and money.

 

I think the state of Universities is shocking. And the idea of grading your tutor - well, that definitely puts me off a career in academia (that plus the terrible salary).

Honestly, I think we should have capped university at a much lower proportion of places and made entry based purely on academic merit, with those students being subsidised. I gues I would say that. But now, it's just another industry, another service, with the purpose of making money. Not long 'til my kids will need to decide on this.  

[Holden McGroin 6582]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No, blame social media, again. Thatcher died years ago and has been out of power 35 years! This is a much more recent thing. Whether you're called a customer/consumer/ citizen/passenger/patient makes no odds, just people being dicks. 

 

Social meda certainly has a part to play. I noticed a massive jump in behaviour around COVID times as well. People just seem angrier and entitled since then.

[Rayvin 5217]

I was just thinking about how I've (amongst others) been asked to come up with policy, strategy and solution to the current situation we find ourselves in - and I suppose for those who've pushed back on the thoughts I had, what do you lot think we should be doing then? Given that the Democrats were just annihilated doing what you think they should do, what is your answer?

[Renton 21588]

Just now, Rayvin said:

I was just thinking about how I've (amongst others) been asked to come up with policy, strategy and solution to the current situation we find ourselves in - and I suppose for those who've pushed back on the thoughts I had, what do you lot think we should be doing then? Given that the Democrats were just annihilated doing what you think they should do, what is your answer?

 

I don't have one. We're fucked. 

[Rayvin 5217]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

I don't have one. We're fucked. 

 

So on that basis, why not at least consider trying what we're saying

[ewerk 30569]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I was just thinking about how I've (amongst others) been asked to come up with policy, strategy and solution to the current situation we find ourselves in - and I suppose for those who've pushed back on the thoughts I had, what do you lot think we should be doing then? Given that the Democrats were just annihilated doing what you think they should do, what is your answer?

 

Does Trumpism have a future beyond Trump?

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

Does Trumpism have a future beyond Trump?

 

I think so personally in that the overall movement is replicated the world over to varying degrees. We have the spirit of it here. There are differences but this doesn't die with Trump I fear. That energy behind him has to go somewhere.

[ewerk 30569]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think so personally in that the overall movement is replicated the world over to varying degrees. We have the spirit of it here. There are differences but this doesn't die with Trump I fear. That energy behind him has to go somewhere.

 

It does have to go somewhere but it depends where it goes and if everyone lines up behind one successor. Look at the UK and Brexit. It got Johnson a big majority but after he went it effectively split between Reform and the Tories leading to the rise of Labour. I think it's a far from a foregone conclusion that Trumpism is a long term vote winner.

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

It does have to go somewhere but it depends where it goes and if everyone lines up behind one successor. Look at the UK and Brexit. It got Johnson a big majority but after he went it effectively split between Reform and the Tories leading to the rise of Labour. I think it's a far from a foregone conclusion that Trumpism is a long term vote winner.

 

Maybe so - is that the answer then, we just admit he completely defeated us and hope he dies soon? Not entirely unlike our view on Putin.

[Toonpack 9390]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

Does Trumpism have a future beyond Trump?

Certainly, because he’s simply a figurehead, they’ll (Bannon, Thiel etc) just find another. Vance first in line and whoever his VP becomes next in line.

 

They’ll keep Trump until all their mechanisms are in place then 25th him. Although how the true MAGA cultists will take to that, who knows. Unless he pegs it first of course.

 

🍿🍿
 

p.s. Farage has same backers.

Edited November 7 by Toonpack

[ewerk 30569]

42 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Maybe so - is that the answer then, we just admit he completely defeated us and hope he dies soon? Not entirely unlike our view on Putin.

There’s nothing much more that any of us can do.

 

A massive part of the problem imo is social media. Previously people with right wing tendencies would maybe sit at home for an hour watching Fox and getting angry. Now there’s Twitter where they can get angry when they wake up, get angry on their lunch breaking and get angry while taking a shit. It’s just constant. And people with slightly to the right views get pulled further and further down the rabbit hole until we end up with people like Trump and decisions like Brexit. People want to believe that these things will change their life for the better because they come at someone else’s expense but of course it improves nothing.

 

And to answer your question as to why there isn’t a left wing Andrew Tate, it’s because hate and division is a lot easier to sow than empathy and selflessness.

[ewerk 30569]

47 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

Certainly, because he’s simply a figurehead, they’ll (Bannon, Thiel etc) just find another. Vance first in line and whoever his VP becomes next in line.

 

They’ll keep Trump until all their mechanisms are in place then 25th him. Although how the true MAGA cultists will take to that, who knows. Unless he pegs it first of course.

 

🍿🍿
 

p.s. Farage has same backers.

If Vance is the planned successor then they’re fucked. People liked Trump and Farage because they’re ‘genuine’. Vance is awkward and polished looking. Look at Bernie Sanders and AOC, the left like them because they’re genuine but unfortunately too genuine for the mainstream.

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

3 hours ago, trophyshy said:

Project 2025, a summary:

Government Structure and Bureaucracy

• Personnel Overhaul: Streamline federal hiring by implementing a "Conservative LinkedIn" for administration roles, and prepare appointees through the Presidential Administration Academy.
• Executive Power: Increase presidential control over executive agencies, reducing the autonomy of career bureaucrats, and aim to limit perceived “deep state” influence on policy decisions.

Economy and Financial Regulation

• Tax and Spending Reform: Cut taxes, reduce federal spending, and simplify the tax code to stimulate private sector growth.
• Regulation Rollback: Curb the powers of regulatory bodies like the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), aiming to lessen restrictions on businesses.
• Federal Reserve: Shift Federal Reserve policy focus towards economic stability and away from social or environmental objectives.

Energy and Environmental Policy

• Energy Independence: Expand domestic fossil fuel production by opening federal lands to drilling and reducing restrictions on oil, gas, and coal.
• Climate Policy Shift: De-emphasise climate change as a policy priority by scaling back initiatives aimed at reducing carbon emissions, reducing the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) role in climate regulation.
• Renewable Energy: Redirect government support away from renewable energy subsidies and towards fossil fuel investment.

Defence and Foreign Policy

• Military Prioritisation: Strengthen national defence by increasing the defence budget and refocusing on conventional military power rather than climate or diversity initiatives.
• Immigration Control: Reform immigration policies by building stronger border protections, limiting pathways to citizenship, and increasing deportations.

Social and Cultural Issues

• Education Reform: Encourage “school choice” policies, increase support for homeschooling, and reduce the Department of Education’s influence on curriculum standards, especially regarding diversity and equity.
• Gender and Family Policies: Restrict access to gender-affirming healthcare, and promote policies that prioritise traditional family structures. Project 2025 broadens the definition of "obscene" material to include a variety of LGBTQ+ content and discussions on gender identity, suggesting that these too should be restricted.
• Religious Liberty: Bolster protections for religious institutions and individuals, especially in healthcare and business sectors where actions may conflict with religious beliefs.
• Pornography: restricting access, positioning it as a societal harm comparable to drug addiction. Proposing a national ban on adult content, arguing that pornography is not protected by the First Amendment and should be outlawed. This plan entails criminal penalties for those producing, distributing, or facilitating access to such content. 
• Drugs: Project 2025 proposes a significant shift in federal marijuana policy, aiming to reinforce federal prohibition despite state-level legalisation efforts. The plan emphasises a zero-tolerance approach, potentially revoking protections for individuals and businesses operating under state marijuana legalisation frameworks.
• Guns: Project 25 proposes relaxing federal restrictions on gun ownership through measures like Concealed Carry Reciprocity (CCR). This proposal would require all states to recognise each other's concealed carry permits, allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms across state lines regardless of differing state regulations. This policy has raised concerns among experts and advocacy groups.

Law Enforcement and Legal Reform

• Judicial Reforms: Emphasise the appointment of conservative judges, and advocate for a strict interpretation of the Constitution.
• Crime Policy: Advocate for stricter penalties and increased federal support for local law enforcement, reducing reform-oriented approaches

Immigration and Border Management 

• Mass Deportations: The plan outlines a large-scale deportation strategy, which would include expanding "expedited removal" procedures for immigrants found anywhere in the U.S., not just near borders. This would enable ICE to conduct deportations more swiftly, potentially even in sensitive locations like schools and hospitals
• Militarization of Border Security: Project 2025 calls for enhanced use of military resources at the border, advocating for the deployment of National Guard personnel and increased construction of barriers. This focus on deterrence is aimed at preventing unlawful entries and would involve stricter enforcement measures, particularly impacting asylum seekers
• Wronguns Programme: People of dubious character, such as Gemmill for instance, will be encouraged to enter the country with a lifetime subscription to Obnoxious Accountants Online.
• Expanded Detention Facilities: The proposal suggests increasing detention capacity to hold up to 100,000 individuals awaiting deportation.
• Elimination of Specific Immigration Relief Programs: Key programs, such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS) for individuals from countries facing crises, would be cut. This could affect hundreds of thousands who currently have work authorisation under these protection.

 

 

You missed their new flag off. 

 

Dumb down the masses, increase the military, push religion ( as long as it’s white and Christian), get the brown folks out. 
 

Textbook

[Renton 21588]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

So on that basis, why not at least consider trying what we're saying

 

Trouble is, I  haven't heard you say anything remotely tangible or concrete. 

In my ideal world, focussing on the UK, I would go for much, much closer integration witht the EU, with the UK joining the 4 freedoms as a matter of urgency. I would like us to join the EU, then the euro, and then the EU to become completely fedarlised with Brussels as the capital and major regional capitals like London in a hub and spoke model. Together as a cohesive unit the EU could stand against the tyranny of the US, China, and Russia. I'd pool our defences and use our nuclear deterrent as an umbrella protection for the continent, along with the French. There would be no place for NATO, although Canada and Turkey could become associate members. 

I would also unfortunately deregulate in some key areas relating to technology and commerce to make us more competitive with the US, but protect individual rights. I'd ban US and Chinese social media platforms and have more closely EU regulated ones as an alternative. I'd... I'd...

 

And there I am typing horseshit. I live in the real World. In the real World, even the first of my solutions is not politically possible. We're an island off the coast of a diminishing economic super power on one side and an ascendent authoritarian super power some way off on the other. And because we are part of neither, we are pretty much in a doom loop at this stage. But history tells us, things will one day change. We just have to wait for that day. 

Edited November 7 by Renton

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

2 hours ago, Holden McGroin said:

On a slightly different topic, there seems to be a mass entitlement running across this country (and I suspect others) where it's okay to abuse NHS staff/bus drivers/air stewards etc etc. Im not going to say Society is crumbling but the lack of respect is also rising rapidly.  There is an extra angst amongst people.

 

I wouldn't wish war on anyone (and hope  it doesn't happen) but it would certainly make the populace grateful for what we've got now. I just don't know how people can get common courtesy back. It may never come back.

Social media has a large part to play, but also don’t discount decades of Tory rule and culture. 
When I was on the rigs, is really hit home how much of a generational divide there was in selfishness and political outlook. 
 

My generation and the lads older than me were overwhelmingly left leaning, to varying degrees. 
 

The younger lads, 40 odd and below, were almost exclusively a pack of cunts 

 

Obsessed with money and property, very much “Fuck you, I’m alright Jack!” when discussing shared workspace ( e.g.plumbers working below us - they’ll be there for 4 shifts, we’d be there for 3, they’d kick off if they were stood down in favour of us ( unless they had an old school gaffer) constantly whining about immigration and taxes. 
 

The societal selfishness has been there a long time now, it’s ingrained in so many working class lads that it’s depressing, social media has just made it easier to see. 

[Monkeys Fist 42387]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

along with the French