aimaad22 4103 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 My heart bleeds for the Muslim community coping with France banning the veil. How much of a chore it must be for them to struggle with the prospect of their women's hair being seen in public. Rather ironic coming from a country that goes on and on about liberty and freedom of this and that. Trying to understand the other culture is the first step towards respect and thus peace. Yet you wonder why we're so fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Most of what he says is right. Some of it is cobblers. He does over reach in certain parts cause he doesn't have an angle on the mix. And one or two bits are wrong...But the tone of it is about right. The causality bits are correct with regard to neo-imperialism but it isn't as organized and deliberate as he makes out. The situation is in flux and the road map is moving around. There are problems down the road and austerity is being slipped in with a good dose of fear. Fear of immigration fear of terrorism, fear of 'the other' and the acceptance of the 'new normal'. The routine is always the same. History shows us that the biggest barrier to their insane antics is the host population and now even more with the spread of independent media and social networks. The crackdown on all this is coming. The new surveillance powers are a sign. Soon ole Parky won't be able to say what he thinks. Believe it baby it's coming. Prepare yourselves. Rise my charmlings. Edited November 16, 2015 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 My heart bleeds for the Muslim community coping with France banning the veil. How much of a chore it must be for them to struggle with the prospect of their women's hair being seen in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Rather ironic coming from a country that goes on and on about liberty and freedom of this and that. Trying to understand the other culture is the first step towards respect and thus peace. Yet you wonder why we're so fucked. Don't bite mate, I think the roids have gone to his head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Rather ironic coming from a country that goes on and on about liberty and freedom of this and that. Trying to understand the other culture is the first step towards respect and thus peace. Yet you wonder why we're so fucked. I don't respect aspects of any culture that oppress someone on grounds of their sex or sexuality. Tolerance only goes so far. Look mate, you seem like a nice lad but you are religious. And religions are all mumbo jumbo nonsense in my opinion so you'll have to forgive me for coming across like a godless kafir. Your religion just happens to be one that seems most vulnerable to interpretation and manipulation. To address your question directly, I don't want Muslim community leaders to condem the murder of innocent civilians because it'll make me feel warm and fuzzy, or because Fox News told me to. It's because it's the right fucking thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Don't bite mate, I think the roids have gone to his head One of the few drugs I've never fancied funnily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Won't ISIS be replaced by some other iteration, as they seem* to have replaced Al Qaeda ? *to my admittedly ill-informed eyes. Al Q are apparently stronger than they have ever been, I heard somewhere today. However in between taxi journeys my time has been split between Radio 5 Live and watching Homeland so contamination of facts is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21224 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Rather ironic coming from a country that goes on and on about liberty and freedom of this and that. Trying to understand the other culture is the first step towards respect and thus peace. Yet you wonder why we're so fucked. You don't seem to get what our values are, or more specifically what the values of France are. Your religion's values are simply at odds with that of France. Actually a lot of Muslims surveyed admit this. Freedom, equality, fraternity. Are any of those concepts embraced by Islam? Not to my mind they're not, happy for you to provide examples to the contrary like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21224 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Don't bite mate, I think the roids have gone to his head He doesn't agree with you so must be a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44250 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This thread has got fucking minging tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21224 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) This thread has got fucking minging tbh.I really don't see how. As Gloom says , aimaad genuinely seems like a nice bloke but I think it's incredibly rich of him to come on here and complain of France being intolerant! I'm also sick of the fact it seems to be taboo to discuss these issues even on a forum as liberal as toontastic. That to me is what is minging. Edited November 16, 2015 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Interesting free to read piece in the FT by Gideon Rachman on whether there is a clash of civilisations, or not. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/96b9ed08-8c46-11e5-a549-b89a1dfede9b.html?ftcamp=social/free_to_read/paris_attacks_comment/facebook/awareness/editorial&segid=0100320#axzz3raDPJWdE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15361 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'm also sick of the fact it seems to be taboo to discuss these issues even on a forum as liberal as toontastic. That to me is what is minging. On literally the first page of this thread you tell someone what they shouldn't be discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This thread has got fucking minging tbh. Leave CT's dinner out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5164 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This thread has got fucking minging tbh. Agreed, but anger is the one constant on both sides - only realistic that we'd see it here as well I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 On literally the first page of this thread you tell someone what they shouldn't be discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'd be surprised if there wasn't strong and emotive disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21224 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 On literally the first page of this thread you tell someone what they shouldn't be discussing. At that time, yes, I gave my opinion that J69's comments on Cameron etc were out of order. There's a time and a place, I think he actually agreed. I thought it was crass more than anything else, including it being idiotic (thats just my opinion though). Not sure what that's got to with the taboo that definitely exists about criticising a particular religion now though? Is it actually possible to discuss how Islam can be integrated into a secular county, and what issues are created? Or shall we just plod on and accept that causing offence is just not acceptable? Genuinely interested in this topic.v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21224 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 On literally the first page of this thread you tell someone what they shouldn't be discussing. For those that can't be bothered to look back, this is what I said: "Not the time for this. I'm embarrassed for you." You can read what it was in reply to yourselves and see if I was wrong or trying to censor discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Police have arrested the owner of a hairdressing salon after she apparently posted on her Facebook page that Muslims were no longer welcome at her business. The 43-year-old woman, who runs Blinks of Bicester hair salon in Oxfordshire, was arrested on Sunday after members of the public reported the posts, Thames Valley police said. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/16/salon-owner-arrested-no-muslims-facebook-post-blinks-bicester I'd always defend the right of a racist prick to be a racist prick. Arrested? What a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17060 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Fair play to elderly Belfast proto-punks Stiff Little Fingers.... Our sincere condolences go out to everyone affected by the Parisian tragedies. The music business is often sheltered from the harsh realities of life and this weekend they have come home with a dreadful finality. As you may know, Stiff Little Fingers are scheduled to play in Paris tomorrow evening and there is a lot of confusion around this date as shows are being cancelled or re-scheduled and so on. When we were growing up in Belfast, I was always saddened by the fact that groups would never come and play there because of the political situation. I was deprived of another "normal" part of life. With this in mind, and with the wonderful co-operation of our Parisian promoter, the S.L.F. show at Backstage at the Mill, WILL GO AHEAD AS ADVERTISED tomorrow night. I hope to see as many of you there as possible. Hanx! Many have cancelled, for various reasons... http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34826099/foo-fighters-u2-and-eagles-of-death-metal-cancel-gigs-after-paris-attacks Don't know what I'd do, its a tricky one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhh_yeah 2942 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 A day before Isis launched an attack on Paris, they also launched an attack on Lebanon. Nearly 50 people were killed and over 200 injured as suicide bombers launched attacks in the middle of rush hour. One man who died, Adel Termos, did something extraordinary. When he noticed the second suicide bomber moving towards onlookers of the mosque targeted in the first explosion, he tackled him, causing his bomb to explode before he could get deeper into the crowd. Blogger and physician Elie Fares , who lives in Beirut said: He tackled him to the ground, causing the second suicide bomber to detonate. There are many, many families, hundreds of families probably, who owe their completeness to his sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 A day before Isis launched an attack on Paris, they also launched an attack on Lebanon. Nearly 50 people were killed and over 200 injured as suicide bombers launched attacks in the middle of rush hour. One man who died, Adel Termos, did something extraordinary. When he noticed the second suicide bomber moving towards onlookers of the mosque targeted in the first explosion, he tackled him, causing his bomb to explode before he could get deeper into the crowd. Blogger and physician Elie Fares , who lives in Beirut said: He tackled him to the ground, causing the second suicide bomber to detonate. There are many, many families, hundreds of families probably, who owe their completeness to his sacrifice. The ultimate sacrifice, what a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4679 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 There's some very brave people in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 That's a heartening story. Anyway as I was saying earlier about the schisms and misplayed hands of Isis: 1. The internal Wahhabi war: There is no war within Islam in Syria, as Thomas Friedman and his ilk keep asserting. There has been a moderate and progressive strand of Islam in Syria and many of its elements have aligned themselves with the regime. And contrary to early claims made by the hired external opposition and its advocates in the West, there was never a moderate and progressive version of Islam among the rebel groups. How could that be the case when the sponsors of Syrian rebel Islam are Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia? Mufti Hassun (although he is an ally and perhaps a tool of the regime, and even the slain Sheikh al-Buti) is far more progressive than any of his adversaries on the other side, including Mu`adh al-Khatib who has railed in the past about the ills of social media, masturbation and Jews, and who praised al-Nusrah Front early on his tenure as leader of the Syrian National Council. The internal Wahhabi war is pitting the various Wahhabi parties in the region against each other. The Saudi regime, Qatari regime, al-Qa`idah (Nusrah Front) and ISIS: all four are Wahhabi and each is trying to dominate the field of the Wahhabi movement. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/asad-abukhalil/syria-proxy-wars_b_5874488.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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